TV Tropes Org

Forums

On-Topic Conversations:
College Sports: How can we fix it?
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [71]  1  2
3

College Sports: How can we fix it?:

We're Having All The Fun
[up][up] And neither is private businesses creating a monopoly/cartel in order to make mega-profits a good thing. But they are things that are going to happen and there are laws against most of those things. This is not a problem that is either unique to college sports or that is entirely characteristic of college sports and to say that it is college sports that needs fixing is folly.

[up] How could it be one option or bust. Generally, there are multiple universities available in a city or state and if there isn't there is still the option to go to a different state or country for education. None of my family studied in the same city as they lived in prior to going to university and I don't really see how there is a dichotomy of go to this shitty university or go to none at all, unless they failed the entrance exams at other universities.
All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
They were both the first people in their families to go to any university at all. They simply did not have any way of knowing better at the time.
 53 USAF713, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:02:48 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
And neither is private businesses creating a monopoly/cartel in order to make mega-profits a good thing. But they are things that are going to happen and there are laws against most of those things. This is not a problem that is either unique to college sports or that is entirely characteristic of college sports and to say that it is college sports that needs fixing is folly.

...I don't understand the argument you're trying to make here. "Bad things happen and we have rules in place for it so stop worrying that bad things still happen?"
I am now known as Flyboy.
We're Having All The Fun
[up][up] That was their ignorance that was the problem. Regrettable though it is, there is really no one to blame but them.

[up] My argument is that it is part of a much larger problem where people put what is right to one side in order to make money. To try and fix this problem vis--vis college sports is impossible without changing the nature of greed within people or without putting in a larger regulatory committee to watch over everything. What I am saying is that the problem is far larger than football and to target that specifically is folly.
All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 55 The Earth Sheep, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:11:36 PM from a Pasture hexagon
Christmas Sheep
[up] Ayn Rand would say that greed is what's right, probably just because she's got daily life mixed up with mass economy, but do you have a counter-argument? Because if you don't, your entire logical structure falls apart. You know, begging the question.
Still Sheepin'
We're Having All The Fun
[up] Ayn Rand is also a worthless fake philosopher who is not worth anyone's time of day and who has no understanding of reality. I do not feel the need to counter anything she says, because coming up with a counter argument would be legitimizing something she has said as being worthy of analysis.
All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 57 USAF713, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:13:54 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
My argument is that it is part of a much larger problem where people put what is right to one side in order to make money. To try and fix this problem vis--vis college sports is impossible without changing the nature of greed within people or without putting in a larger regulatory committee to watch over everything. What I am saying is that the problem is far larger than football and to target that specifically is folly.

Well, of course trying to set ethics right in college (and high school) sports won't fix human selfishness. We simple must go about it one problem at a time.

And fuck Ayn Rand (though I am vaguely enjoying The Fountainhead, even if its philosophy is horrible garbage).
I am now known as Flyboy.
 58 The Earth Sheep, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:15:17 PM from a Pasture hexagon
Christmas Sheep
I agree, but regardless. That's an ad hominem fallacy.
Still Sheepin'
We're Having All The Fun
[up][up]There's only so much we can do. Look at both Penn State and that steroids thing you mentioned. The people involved in those got punished for their actions, so how is that not dealing with the problem. What more could be done?

[up] You want me to explain why nepotism and self-service are horrible things to endorse? Especially when Rand's own philosophy is explicit about the fact that there are things beyond the self. (As opposed to solipsism where thinking: "Fuck everyone else, I am looking out for myself is at least somewhat justified") The fact that I need to do that when it just should be generally understood that it is wrong astounds me.

edited 10th Dec '11 11:19:19 PM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 60 USAF713, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:17:11 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Ayn Rand is one of those people who takes decent premises (though I disagree with some of her underlying metaphysics; I'm talking simple politics and ideas on how the human condition works) and goes in the complete wrong direction with them...

"Humans are selfish by nature." Yes. "Ergo, selfishness is a good thing." Face Palm.

Edit: [up] We could, as you say, have better ethics/regulatory boards. We could also try and shift the emphasis of the culture so as to better embody the idea of being "good role models, " rather than doing what's "best for the team, " etc.

edited 10th Dec '11 11:18:10 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 61 The Earth Sheep, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:18:04 PM from a Pasture hexagon
Christmas Sheep
[up][up] The problem is they weren't punished for their actions quickly/harshly enough (at least in the Penn State example), so there were more victims than there should have been.

[up] Repeatedly saying how bad she is doesn't make her bad. I mean, sorry, but that's really poor form.

edited 10th Dec '11 11:18:45 PM by TheEarthSheep

Still Sheepin'
They think me mad
If anything I'd like to see college level football/basketball separated from the colleges themselves and turned into a minors pro league just so the students can be legally paid beyond just tuition reimbursements.
To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
We're Having All The Fun
The problem is they weren't punished for their actions quickly/harshly enough (at least in the Penn State example), so there were more victims than there should have been.

That happens everywhere in law. There are no special allowances being made here just to keep football teams having this wonderful image. Sometimes the law does take a long time to act, it is regrettable, but it is still not really an intrinsic problem with College Sports.

We could also try and shift the emphasis of the culture so as to better embody the idea of being "good role models, " rather than doing what's "best for the team, "

Is it really there place to be role-models? Why should they be held to higher standards? If they break the law, they should be punished. But if they don't do anything wrong, just something that we might not want the kids to be doing (I am relating this more to how sports players are treated in Australia, so I might be missing your point entirely) like drinking excessively or engaging in orgies, that's not really a problem. They are people and they will do what people do and that is fine unless it breaks the law. (Forgive me if I have misunderstood what you are arguing here)

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 64 USAF713, Sat, 10th Dec '11 11:47:26 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Bleh... it's not the drinking or the sex that I'm talking about.

For example, in that Penn State example, if the culture was right and proper he would have realized that it's far more ethical—and possibly even better for the team's reputation—to help hang that bastard high rather than worry about causing a scandal. I say role models in the sense that they shouldn't be so enamored with the team and their own futures to consider themselves above ethics, and to consider cheating to be worth it.

This also extends to the administrators, who may, for example, when faced with funding cuts choose to cut academic programs or less popular sporting team budgets before they attack the basic sports (football, basketball, baseball, etc.). That's more pertinent to high schools than colleges, however.
I am now known as Flyboy.
We're Having All The Fun
[up] But isn't that still more the problem with the person rather than with the culture as a whole? I'd like to imagine that most people would do everything in their power to stop a kiddy-fiddler and that this person just made a poor call in a time of stress, or was just one bad apple. If there was a greater trend within college sports, then it would be prudent to look and see if there is something wrong with the system as a whole, but as it stands there is little to suggest that.

The real things that should be cut are the paper-pushing middle managers, but they themselves would never suggest that. Also, the academic programs don't make the same returns as the ol' pigskin, so it is better to cut the funding of the academic things in the short term, in order to get more funding in the long term. Funding which can siphon back to the academic elements, no less.
All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 66 USAF713, Sun, 11th Dec '11 12:03:57 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Sociologically-speaking, it's faulty to suggest that every problem is only an individual issue. It would be disingenuous to say that there is a trend of molestations going unnoticed in the school sports industry (but hey, the Catholic Church got away with it, so who knows?), but there is a general trend of people making poor ethical decisions for selfish reasons related to the game, which is counter-intuitive to the goal of holding such things to high standards.

I guess I'll agree to disagree on the funding issue. Though there usually shouldn't be a point where funding should be cut from education in the first place, unless the program in question is ineffective for the cost/benefit ratio...

edited 11th Dec '11 12:04:10 AM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
We're Having All The Fun
[up] It is also faulty to assume that everything is part of a larger problem. Sure, there may be instances where people overlook what is right in order to turn a profit, but there is not really much you could do about it. Like it or not, people are selfish and will do bad things if it is going to keep them in power (In this instance power would be the fat paycheck they receive at the end of the day). The only solutions are to make it so that it is not so interdependent so that people are more likely to rat out others who are doing bad shit (which is never going to happen) or to take the money out of the industry, which is simply unfair to all involved. Again, this is not a problem to do with sports, but one to do with any industry.

I'd like the OP to clarify by explaining what his/her/its problem with it is.

edited 11th Dec '11 12:23:53 AM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 68 USAF713, Sun, 11th Dec '11 12:19:54 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
I'm not entirely sure whether I'm arguing with you or agreeing in a confused, belligerent fashion.

But yes, clarification from the OP would be appreciated.
I am now known as Flyboy.
We're Having All The Fun
[up] I like to think that we are generally agreeing, but that we disagree on a few minor points. (Namely, I feel that this a problem with society in general and that there is no real ground that can be made on the issue until someone deals with the larger problem of greed and wealth. And you feel that we should deal with the small things like football, before trying to deal with the larger issue of greed)
All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.
 70 USAF713, Sun, 11th Dec '11 12:28:49 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Oh, well, now I know what the problem is.

I think, personally, that approaching the problem of greed—as vast as it is—from a top-down, macro approach will just give you a headache before you give up. It's simpler and more feasible to do it on a micro, bottom-up level, by dealing with individual issues (such as, for example, a lack of integrity in school sports) as they come.

Or at least, that's how I think of it.
I am now known as Flyboy.
They think me mad
The Penn State example is more about the cult of personality around those highly regarded in their communities, especially those with an imagine of being philanthropists and of high moral character. It's partially a problem with the image of college sports, and even among them Paterno's administration is a pretty unique deal.
To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
Total posts: 71
 1  2
3


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy