So Tom, you're basically saying that modernization makes even unpaid slaves obsolete. Allow me to offer you my "Ludd Was Right" tiara.
edited 7th Dec '11 9:44:10 PM by johnnyfog
PHD in Thuganomics
I see the Awesomeness.
You know, if robots are exclusively responsible for the harvest, we wouldn't have to pay for the food we get from it, because there's noone to pay for the work.Well, you have to pay for the mechanics to upkeep the machines (until that is automated), as well as all raw materials/parts. As well as usage of land and what not. It strikes me as more likely that we'll simply see a massive switch in retirement:working time periods. Work for ten years, then eighty years of fun living off the proceeds. Keep paying people who have real skills that haven't been automated yet.
Well, Savage hit on the problem being capitalism first, and that's pretty much it. What will people do? Whatever they want to do. Don't make the presumption that jobs have to be some kind of labour or whatever. When robots do everything, humans are freed to do pure thought-economy; the production of art in its various forms and media and so on. Everything is free and people are rated by their fame. But in any case, it'll be difficult to reach that point even in the next 1000 years. With space exploration, off-world colonisation and so on (plus the pointless squandering of resources on wars whether governments do it intentionally or not) will mean people will have plenty of jobs for a long time to come.
MED Cs and LEDCS in different let similar fashions. In MED Cs robots have already served as a part of the manual industries in notion of the car industry, observed by manual observers. Food factories are manual observed but if it be possible for robots to dominate and even replace these workers? Possible. In agriculture though I sense an interesting notion that may separate nations apart; organic farming is getting a notion of the most popular. There are food movements here in Britain that tries to promote such organic industries. Robots might cause a obscure... but I see robots also as a add if we were to develop their intelligence. Imagine robots that could learn to drive transport goods safety that can help farmers, allowing logistical ease? Robots that might help those that do not have enough workers such as those in the most rural of areas? We must consider also that even with more advance robots there will be a need for workers to maintain them; even if we develop robots to maintain robots we would need workers to maintain the robots that maintain robots and so on if you add “robots to maintain robots who maintain robots” be a human chain of observation who maintain. People also may desire manmade items to still be created, allowing an organic market. Also consider that robots serving alongside humans might lead an interesting development in the human condition. In the end yes; many jobs might be taken by robots... but not most if be. I note that robots may receive the same stigma as immigrants. One of my teachers in Sixth Form told me of a town that many of the population were very anti-immigrant, claiming they were taking their jobs. The main industry of this town was farming and the biggest job is harvesting. These townspeople refuse to do this labour; hence why immigrants with doctorates are amounts the fields. Now; if machines become cheaper and more efficient, would both the townspeople and the immigrants be not needed? Alas; there be only a few observers needed. Let I am not seeing doomsday for I sense a visionary’s dream; the creation of new industries, the development of manufacturing and the novelty of human made produce in the markets being a notion of gold. However I sense that worker rights have face a battle as CE Os strive for cost efficiently at the expense of liberty and for a truly functional robot aided society apathy must be battled for then robots can truly be a political tool of progress as oppose to either a illusion maker or a scapegoat for all our problems. It is well known that in LED Cs the exploitation of the workers is vast. Will these low paid workers be replaced by machines that are cheap AND efficient? Possibly. In China many factory workers rely on their labour to help supply their families. There was a great problem thanks to the recent recession as the lessening of demand of products lead to the sack of around 10 million of these workers. In these factories those workers were paid more than the labour they commence on the farms A gloomy notion may appear here, although the government of China may realise that human labour might be a think to consider to remain in order to maintain order. Why did I note that human labours maintain order for the control of the populace? This is the bright bit I see in the future. The reason for the concept of the three day week was that of the idea that the other 4 days could be set for the people to contribute to making the world a better place. Consider how the increase in democratic institution came after industrialization; after the exploitation came a call for worker rights which in turn was connected to a vast issue; suffrage. In Britain woman rights to vote came after WW 1, where they served as manual workers to make up for the men being drafted for the war. Consider that the possibilities of technological increase in communication, a technology can could be set to undemocratic surveillance as be with CCTV, can be used to help to set up a demonstration. Technology can be used for either good or evil. Robots might take jobs but give in return conscience and a desire of change. Why should we maintain a status quos if labour is now mechanical? Imagine robots taking routes in none manual areas such as shopping, transport and even policing; these are possible with increase development in artificial intelligence. Taking the human out of the equation though will not result in “profit and efficiency” as the” corporate overlord” may seek; it would cause unrest as people strive for their worker rights. I sense a possibility for democracy in action; a stepping stone in our evolution as a species via forcing us out of the illusion that apathy has placed on us all. Warning: slight derail Communism would only occur for a population that is 100% working and uncorrupted, hence its failure which robots may not prevent. Anarchy may seem with robots doing all the work but humananity will just invent other jobs to do and maintenance of robots are needed; plus as a believer of balance I oppose authoritarianism... and the removal of government for we need a system to function to avoid exploitation. However capitalism is not the way forward as profit does not equal progress for society unless it contributes to society and is not set in a risk game that help contribute to our recession; its failings is that it in many aspects is economic anarchy, allowing the powerful to exploit the weaker. No; a balance economy must emerge to enjoy the fruits that robots may give us; a green merchantist self-made socialist economy that regulation can be policed may be possible with machines to correct human error. Slight derail ended If we develop the machines to work for us... we could develop their intelligence, allowing us a stepping stone in understand our condition. With this we will evolve. History has shown that our progress is that of climbing a mountain in an eternal snow storm but as we progress we gain the fruits of knowledge and in turn power... along with increasing resistance to the cold. Robots will be a stepping stone to the top where then we will be reaching for the stars. Creators are what the greater Creator seeks. Robots may ends up being developed to be... our creation, our children. We must develop industrial robots to lead to intelligent robots to lead to be creators. Via progress may unlock life’s secrets and become monarchs of the future. No... better than that... GODS!
I see the Awesomeness.I've never gotten the "robots fixing robots" infinite chain thing. If you have robots that can fix robots, you don't need a higher level of robots to fix those, you just have them fix each other.
Pro-Freedom FanaticHow about socialism now, as much mechanization than we're physically capable of, and a massive reduction on working hours without no corresponding reduction in pay? The switch to an entirely post-scarcity economy can't be done overnight, certainly... But if you plundered all the rich's wealth and distributed it evenly among the population, any advance in productivity afterwards would benefit everybody. We could probably get 20-hour-workweeks at its most onerous right now, for pay equal or higher... If we just took the suit and the businessowners out of the picture. Getting rid of them would make sure that all advances in technology benefit the worker.
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
Three StepsPersonally I look forward to robo-slaves. The point about the Romans ignoring technology because slaves were cheaper is exactly the point. Once we get robots that build other robots and maintain each other, robots become practically free. So you have all the benefits of slavery with none of the moral issues.
That, and companies are cheap fucks. Easier to make shitty stuff with what amounts to slave labor than to try and go all high-tech.This. And for long as this is the case, Asimo's staying out of the fields.
^ That's my greatest concern. Greece never use any of the ingenious technologies they came up with because slave labour was too good. Now we're all concerned about robots or immigrants taking our jobs, we're not willing to move ahead technology-wise. I don't want to stagnate. Also, we don't need to plunder the rich, that's just silly. The more socialist we become, the unfairly rich will simply go away as people are more fairly paid for their work.
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