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Will Russia become a Superpower once again?:

 26 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:00:51 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
How am I stereotyping Russia? They've had the same foreign policy schtick since the rise of the Soviet Union.

China isn't an enemy, necessarily; that would imply I wanted to confront them militarily.

They are competition.

I don't really know why an accord would require antagonistic relations. "Hey Russia, we'll help you work out your problems with Europe and guarantee your national sovereignty if you let the Middle East work out its democratic movements and help us put economic pressure on the Chinese."

Not that hard.
I am now known as Flyboy.
[up][up]Not trusting scientists is crazy. It's like saying you don't trust microwave ovens.
 
 28 Aceof Spades, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:02:33 PM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
One of those things is not like the others, USAF, and it's the one that starts with scientists. The others at least have context in your often stated political beliefs.

In any case, I think these days it might be less a question of who the next superpower is rather than whether or not we'll have superpowers in the sense that we've had them in the last century. The US and Soviet Russia were the big boys on the block, but twenty years after the USSR's collapse and things look really different. I don't think it will be quite as simple as "these few nations are the ones calling the shots around the world" given that many less powerful nations are getting their feet under them in the political sense.
 29 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:03:03 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
I trust, usually, that scientists know what they're talking about. I don't trust that scientists can do their thing without doing foolish things, or at least not without outside supervision.

/derail

[up] Let's just say it's complicated.

edited 5th Dec '11 8:03:50 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 30 Erock, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:04:46 PM from Toronto
Proud Canadian
They've had the same foreign policy schtick since the rise of the Soviet Union

Considering I needed to inform you of their actins, and the South Ossetia war wasn't quite the Prague Spring repressing.

China is not the States' competition.

China does not steal service and knowledge industry jobs from the US, which is the mainstay of OECD companies. The problem with manfuacturing in the US is the refusal to make and sell high-quality products at a high price, justiying staying in America.

edited 5th Dec '11 8:05:29 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
 31 Oh So Into Cats, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:08:39 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
CANON!!
Russia will become a superpower again the day it becomes a tropical island paradise.

Which is to say, probably in the next seventy years or so.

edited 5th Dec '11 8:12:42 PM by ohsointocats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 32 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:10:46 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Considering I needed to inform you of their actins, and the South Ossetia war wasn't quite the Prague Spring repressing.

The South Ossetia crap was a combination of a small country not figuring out exactly how far out of its depth it is—unless you're the United States, the People's Republic of China, or the European Union, you do not fuck with the Russian Federation—and ethnic/national protection coinciding with political and diplomatic self-interest.

In other words, it was Russia swatting a fly.

China is not the States' competition.

China does not steal service and knowledge industry jobs from the US, which is the mainstay of OECD companies. The problem with manfuacturing in the US is the refusal to make and sell high-quality products at a high price, justiying staying in America.

Like hell. China is slowly shifting into more modernized, high-tech industry, and leaving the shitty stuff behind. It's a slow process, but it's pronounced and noticeable. By the halfway point in the century China won't be "the backwater with a gigantic military" anymore.

Such is why Russia is useful. Partially because China, and partially because oh shit chilly relations with Europe, save Britain...
I am now known as Flyboy.
 33 Erock, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:14:32 PM from Toronto
Proud Canadian
China is slowly shifting into more modernized, high-tech industry, and leaving the shitty stuff behind

Not without enormous categorically in every facet of the country, which I can outline tommorrow.

And the South Ossetia war was still imperialist and wrong, but less wrong then the 1968 invasion.

edited 5th Dec '11 8:14:50 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Russia non-extractive economy is a problem, widespread corruption and too many government control really hinder economy development. you don't want to build factories if most the profits goes too mafia and corrupt officials.

Russia also have demographic problem, their population is declining. Their population also distributed very unevenly, most live in European parts of Russia.

Russia will always become important regional player, but superpowers again is unlikely.

 35 Joesolo, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:18:24 PM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
"Not trusting scientists is crazy. It's like saying you don't trust microwave ovens."

For the record, I don't. We get enough radiation from other stuff.

@op I doubt russia in it's current state could, but they are a MAJOR regional power, and could be a world power again.

And whatever you say, America is, and was at least marginally better in most events. Under Reagan, not so much, but most of the time were were better then the Soviets. Not by much occasionally, but usually better.
I am going to shove the sunshine so far up where the sun don't shine that you will vomit nothing but warm summer days -Belkar
 36 Erock, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:18:27 PM from Toronto
Proud Canadian
[up]It can be if it solves those problems, which I think it will with the Arab Spring bringing accountability much more importance to the public.
If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
 37 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:29:49 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Not without enormous categorically in every facet of the country, which I can outline tommorrow.

Sure, but China has the drive and, more importantly, the manpower to pull it off.

The only nation that can singularly challenge China is India, and they have a nuclear knife pressed to their back in the form of Pakistan.

And the South Ossetia war was still imperialist and wrong, but less wrong then the 1968 invasion.

Bullshit. Georgia started that shit over people who had every reason to want to join Russia. Russia merely finished it.

As I said, you do not fuck with the Russian Federation.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 38 The Westerner, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:47:43 PM from The Land of Fools
Malicious
And should the US and Uk join with India then boom.

[up] Don't worry in 30 to 40 years the Chinese population will start declining and have an aging population.

@USAF The US and the EU fuck with Russia all the time.cool

edited 5th Dec '11 8:50:25 PM by TheWesterner

I was wondering why frisbees got bigger as they got closer then it hit me.
 39 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 8:52:27 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Except associating economically with India creates the same problems as associating economically with China.

It would be easier to oust all the neocons, put business in its place, and work to patch the holes between Russia and Europe or, failing that, neutralize any possible threat from the EU should they decide they like us less than the PRC.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 40 FF Shinra, Mon, 5th Dec '11 9:26:36 PM from Ivalice, apparently Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Beware the Crazy Man.
Power among civilizations is cyclical. Any can be top dog again after sufficient period of time. The question should be whether or not Russia becomes a superpower again anytime soon. To THAT effect, I say yes. But do bear in mind that superpower =/= Soviet Union. But yes, it will rise again.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
 41 lord Gacek, Tue, 6th Dec '11 12:13:41 AM from Kansas of Europe
KVLFON
Since South Ossetia was mentioned, I'll throw in a little factlet I have read about. They had elections there recently, you know? Moscow-backed candidate lost. Incidentally, the elections have been declared null and void for some reason I don't remember. The winner is banned from starting in the repeat. cool
"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"
They think me mad
@27 Scientists are still humans with personal and political agendas. They're also capable of making errors and then going for years making assumptions on erroneous data.

They're professionals and generally know what they're doing, but blindly trusting anyone isn't a great idea and that includes scientists.

(also I haven't used a microwave oven in my home in years)
To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
 43 Oscredwin, Tue, 6th Dec '11 12:57:28 AM from The Frozen East
Cold.
Plumbers are still humans with personal and political agendas. They're also capable of making errors and then going for years making assumptions on erroneous data. They're professionals and generally know what they're doing, but blindly trusting anyone isn't a great idea and that includes plumbers.
[up] Scientists were singled out as a group not to be trusted. USAF has expressed worry that they'll kill us all. Saying that everyone is flawed is nice, but why are we even talking about scientists here? Why not Doctors, plumbers, or airline pilots? If something is brought up as a group not to be trusted, you need a reason to distrust them that doesn't apply to everyone else. Your argument doesn't do that.
Sex, Drugs, and Rationality
 44 USAF713, Tue, 6th Dec '11 4:14:56 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Plumbers didn't invent the nuclear weapon.

/END DERAIL
I am now known as Flyboy.
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
Actually, the discovery of the nuclear weapon is inevitable as soon as nuclear energy is discovered...

A large part on how to build a nuclear reactor is how to get the chain reaction to not blow up: In a world with people funding the discovery of things that go kaboom, inquiry in the most efficient ways to get it to blow up spectacularly could not be avoided.
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
 46 Ailedhoo, Tue, 6th Dec '11 7:23:46 AM from an unknown location
On the issue of Russia as a Superpower...

It is possible; they are still a significant force in the world as was when they were once the USSR. The question is; which nation will reach hegamonic status?
 47 USAF713, Tue, 6th Dec '11 6:57:40 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Eh... I think the only real barrier to Russia getting on a good footing again is its idiotic dick-waving contest with Europe.

And with Europe's current problems, perhaps they'll get a chance to move past that. Who knows?
I am now known as Flyboy.
 48 De Marquis, Tue, 6th Dec '11 7:34:28 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
"Just wondering, there is much ado about China these days, but Russia has been quietly catching back up to the USA for the last decade now. Not only does the country have vast resources it has yet to tap, but it is fast becoming one of the major exporters of energy on the planet, a vital industry. Not to mention that global warming, at its current rate, will likely open up a Northwest Passage in the next fifty years - meaning that Russia will finally have easy access to the sea for its navy.

In addition, Russia is still maintaining parity technologically with the USA in most aspects, and has been a power on and off again historically. Sure, their economy needs some improvement, but that is fixable (and exporting oil is not hurting it). The only real challenge that I see is widespread corruption, but it seems that the Russian people are starting to stand up for themselves and fight for true equality and fairness in government."

Sorry, but I have to dispute almost all of that. Russia has become essentially an oil-boom state. It's economy isn't diversified, they don't protect private property, their entrepreneurs don't innovate, their population, while educated, isn't very productive per capita, and they aren't investing in physical infrastructure. Most wealth generated in Russia is invested in other countries. The upper middle class is leaving in large numbers. "Technological parity" is essentially meaningless in the modern global economy, but middle class residents do not have access to the kind of standard of living we are used to over here, or in Western Europe.

They have more issues than a magazine stand. But they do have a lot of oil-money. It would be nice to believe that the people are starting to stand up to the regime, but it's a bit early to call that one.

Anyway- they aren't going to become another super-power because no one is. It is foreseeable that when the US loses it's overwhelming global economic and cultural dominance, no one is going to replace it, unless it's some collective entity like the G-20. What we will end up with is a collection of regional powers, with the US acting to occasionally tip the balance a la the British in the 19th century.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
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Total posts: 48
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