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Groundhog Day and Rape
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Groundhog Day and Rape:

 1 Excelion, Mon, 5th Dec '11 4:49:10 AM from The Fatherland
Assuming I'm stuck in a "Groundhog Day" Loop and I want to rape da hot chickz and beat fat kids for no reason, I must ask myself, is it morally relevant what action I take when at the end of the day, things are literally reset and, in effect, didn't actually happen?

Is such a "temporary pain" I would inflict on other people meaningful at all?

No splitting in multiple timelines, only loopy shwoopy.
 2 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 4:55:40 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
...well then, here's a new one.

It's a strangely interesting question, even if the answer should still be a resounding "no, that's absolutely reprehensible."
I am now known as Flyboy.
 3 Clarste, Mon, 5th Dec '11 5:43:36 AM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
All pain is temporary. It should have no more or less value than the pain anyone suffers before they die naturally.

It's a dangerous idea, if only for desensitizing yourself to the implications of committing rape.
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
[up]Indeed.
Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
 6 Radical Taoist, Mon, 5th Dec '11 5:58:13 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
Yeah, building sociopathic tendencies in yourself is a form of self-directed violence just the same as drug abuse.
 7 Carciofus, Mon, 5th Dec '11 6:12:41 AM from Alpha Tucanae I
Is that cake frosting?
Bad actions are not bad because they are harmful, they are harmful because they are bad. At least, I think so.

So no, in my opinion even if there were no lasting consequences for anyone these acts would be just as bad as they would have been otherwise.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

 8 Excelion, Mon, 5th Dec '11 6:38:26 AM from The Fatherland
All pain is temporary. It should have no more or less value than the pain anyone suffers before they die naturally.

I should have rephrased it as "not only temporary, but not ever having happened at all" (except in your memory, of course).

It's a dangerous idea, if only for desensitizing yourself to the implications of committing rape.
That's true. Unless you're literally trapped forever, because you changing through your environment (I imagine it's pretty clear that being trapped in a timeloop would have some effects on your character, whether you like it or not) is only bad if the environment is eventually going to change back to the old one.

Bad actions are not bad because they are harmful, they are harmful because they are bad.
Don't really agree with this.
 9 USAF713, Mon, 5th Dec '11 7:13:10 AM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Except in the movie it wasn't permanent, so much as it lasted so long as he was a dick.

Besides, there would be better things to do with your time, anyhow.
I am now known as Flyboy.
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
If time resets back, it's as if you hadn't done it in the first place... But it's probably a horribly bad idea anyway: What if the loop spontaneously breaks and you've gotta live the rest of your life as a convicted sex offender?
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
 11 Blue Ninja 0, Mon, 5th Dec '11 7:43:46 AM from The Middle of Nowhere Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Plotting my Escape
Except in the movie it wasn't permanent, so much as it lasted so long as he was a dick. - USAF
Assuming it does last only so long as you continue morally reprehensible behavior ... then beating/raping/killing people most likely would land you in an infinite loop of time.

That said ... if I knew the day was going to reset, I can think of a number of people I would take great joy in killing.
I'm going to get killed becuase some guy saw me walk out of a Subway eating a foot long shotgun - Mousa
 12 Meeble, Mon, 5th Dec '11 9:23:34 AM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
At least for me, an action that I believe is reprehensible remains reprehensible even if there are no consequences beyond the short term.

If I were in that situation, I would not be able (and would have no desire) to inflict that kind of pain on another living being, even if they wouldn't be able to remember it the next day. My empathy for others is not dependent on long term consequences, or the lack thereof.

edited 5th Dec '11 9:55:56 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Yes, it would be bad. You would be causing suffering to those people, even if those specific incarnations of those people cease to exist.

 14 Clarste, Mon, 5th Dec '11 9:50:17 AM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
Essentially the people die at the end of each cycle and clones of them with less memories appear. So it's about as justifiable as raping terminally ill people because you exactly when they're going to die.

This is bad; that they do not remember it does not mean that the act is right.

If I kill someone, they will not remember dying; this does not make the act of killing any less monstrous.
 
 16 annebeeche, Mon, 5th Dec '11 11:21:19 AM from by the long tidal river
watching down on us
If time resets back, it's as if you hadn't done it in the first place... But it's probably a horribly bad idea anyway: What if the loop spontaneously breaks and you've gotta live the rest of your life as a convicted sex offender?
So inflicting needless suffering on other human beings is probably a horribly bad idea not for the mere fact that it is a horrible thing to do to another living thing, but because it might have negative consequences for you?

What?

edited 5th Dec '11 11:22:45 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
 17 pagad, Mon, 5th Dec '11 11:26:12 AM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
Quite apart from anything else, you can never be entirely sure that your actions are in fact free from consequences, even if you personally do not have to face them - what if you're sliding between parallel universes or something?
Typhoid and swans - it all comes from the same place.
"Bad actions are not bad because they are harmful, they are harmful because they are bad. At least, I think so."

That looks an awful lot like it's prescribing a response to an action solely on your moral judgment of the action.
And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
 19 The Gloomer, Mon, 5th Dec '11 11:56:10 AM from Northern Ireland
Inadequate law student
Assuming I'm stuck in a Groundhog Day Loop and I want to rape da hot chickz and beat fat kids for no reason, I must ask myself, is it morally relevant what action I take when at the end of the day, things are literally reset and, in effect, didn't actually happen?

I think that rape is wrong in and of itself.

If it was any non-criminal activity I'd probably say, "The morality of this action depends on the outcome, " like a good little utilitarian. However, I am of the view that the act of rape is horrid on it's own.

edited 5th Dec '11 11:58:24 AM by TheGloomer

I think the only thing needed to be said here is, if you would forget it the next day, would you want to be beaten and/or raped?

edited 5th Dec '11 11:59:10 AM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
 21 The Gloomer, Mon, 5th Dec '11 11:59:06 AM from Northern Ireland
Inadequate law student
Well, I think the only thing that needs to be said is that if somebody is seriously entertaining the idea of raping somebody because they know they can get away with it they probably need their head checked.

edited 5th Dec '11 11:59:33 AM by TheGloomer

I'm trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's starting a rather ill-conceived line of discussion on ethics rather than seriously contemplating assault and rape.
And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
 23 The Gloomer, Mon, 5th Dec '11 12:05:36 PM from Northern Ireland
Inadequate law student
Well, I wasn't trying to be personally impolite to anybody. It was meant to be a general statement.

 24 Blue Ninja 0, Mon, 5th Dec '11 12:09:34 PM from The Middle of Nowhere Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Plotting my Escape
if you would forget it the next day, would you want to be beaten and/or raped? - kashchei
From the perspective of everyone not in the loop, it's not forgetting what happened, rather the events are re-written so that it never happened. If you, say, barricade the doors and burn down Dunkin' Donuts, the next day/reset you can still go back and get a dozen glazed with sprinkles because the mass destruction and death only happened in your memories.

So, really, I suppose it's like having the best imagination EVAR ... and then using it For the Evulz.

if somebody is seriously entertaining the idea of raping somebody because they know they can get away with it they probably need their head checked. - Gloomer
If there is no evidence, no damages, and no victim, is there still a crime?
I'm going to get killed becuase some guy saw me walk out of a Subway eating a foot long shotgun - Mousa
 25 Excelion, Mon, 5th Dec '11 12:09:36 PM from The Fatherland
I think the only thing needed to be said here is, if you would forget it the next day, would you want to be beaten and/or raped?

Already considered this when I thought up the thread, since the question had virtually no practical meaning. I imagined it in case of a person that has no short-term memory (like in Memento) and whether it's okay do whatever you want with the person because he'll forget anyway.

Now obviously, such a thing is not okay. But there might still be a difference between a person simply "forgetting" being abused in some form, or if the event is literally erased from time, in a sense that the causality of it simply doesn't exist.

One might argue that it's no different from having false memories implanted into your brain, since not only are you the only one who remembers after the time loops, you are effectively remembering something that never happened.

So I feel there exists some difference between the two scenarios, which is why I didn't include the "no short-term memory" scenario.


And no, I would not actually consider raping someone even if I were to be stuck in a timeloop. It was more or less intentionally inflammatory.


[up]So we basically just said the same thing only 2 seconds apart from each other.

edited 5th Dec '11 12:10:33 PM by Excelion

Total posts: 246
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