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Eliminate cop-out flaws and bad characterization!:

 126 Noir Grimoir, Tue, 13th Dec '11 12:42:13 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
I think even in Byronic Heroes though their aloofness, while initially making them seem cool, is usually revealed to be a very bad thing. The typical Byronic Hero isn't very happy at all.
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It...depends (I just wrote a 6 page essay on the archetype). Past examples show a much more balanced portrayal. The whole point is to romanticize someone who is flawed, not perfect.

But as time goes on, we take the same archetype, but assume it's perfect.

Compare Heathcliff's treatment to Erik's treatment.
oddly
 128 USAF713, Tue, 13th Dec '11 4:33:56 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Seen the movie? (It's very good. Though Darcy isn't as icy in the movie, mostly because his actor is kind of adorable to me.)

No. :/

Keep in mind that aloofness as a trait is also heavily romanticized...

I don't know that aloofness is the right word... she sort of just passes through life in a kind of haze, but rather than not comprehending or paying attention to her surroundings, she simply appears disinterested or... I dunno, irrationally surprised in an understated manner towards the things around her that she really should treat in a more mundane, lively manner.

For example, one of the other main characters is completely in love with her and has been for a long time, but she basically never acknowledges it. At one point another character asks here directly whether she knows or not, and her reaction basically amounts to "yes, I've known since the day I met him." Upon being asked what she feels about it, she essentially says "I'm not sure; I've never thought about it."

Of course, that's not really true, but she has a sort of established bubble that she doesn't let anything get inside of and that she tries to use to push the outside world away from her...
I am now known as Flyboy.
 129 Noir Grimoir, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:06:41 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
Maybe 'detached' is more the word you're looking for.

(Anyone who claims to enjoy reading should read Pride and Prejudice at least once. Or at the very least watch the 2005 movie, which has amazing music, it's a literature classic, people!)
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 130 USAF713, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:15:41 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Maybe 'detached' is more the word you're looking for.

(Anyone who claims to enjoy reading should read Pride and Prejudice at least once. Or at the very least watch the 2005 movie, which has amazing music, it's a literature classic, people!)

I thought of that adjective awhile after I posted that. Thank you, though. Is that an interesting flaw? I didn't conceive of it intentionally as such; it's merely a character framework I've been working on for awhile, and this particular protagonist seemed perfect for it, for whatever reason (I couldn't honestly say why, rightly).

I dunno. Romance isn't really my thing, and I understand that Pride and Prejudice is such...
I am now known as Flyboy.
 131 Noir Grimoir, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:24:19 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
It's not really like how most romances are these days, as well as being a witty social commentary and pretty funny at times. Also there isn't a single kiss in the entire book, if that means anything to you. Besides, I know a lot of guys who read it and really identified with Darcy.
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 132 USAF713, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:28:27 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Bleh... pure romance just doesn't hold my interest. It's not the intimacy that bothers me, it's just... not intriguing, I guess.

~shrug~
I am now known as Flyboy.
 133 Noir Grimoir, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:31:01 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
You should at least watch the movie than. Just to be cultured, if nothing else.

edited 13th Dec '11 6:31:42 PM by NoirGrimoir

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 134 USAF713, Tue, 13th Dec '11 6:36:01 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
I guess I'll add it to the ever-growing list...

Still, do you think I could do her detachment reasonably well? I wish I had more of her characterization planned out before hand, but the setting is being evil and I can't tack it down. :/
I am now known as Flyboy.
 135 Noir Grimoir, Thu, 15th Dec '11 5:20:26 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
I certainly think it can be done, it's up to you to pull it off.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
 136 Jewely J, Sat, 17th Dec '11 9:05:33 AM from where the food is
I think it's not really the traits as much as the person pulling them off-like many other things in writing. If someone knows what they're doing and realizes how important proper flaws are they can certainly make'being too naive', 'stubborn' or 'being a perfectionist' a workable flaw.

For example I know perfectionism can be a good flaw. I live with perfectionists. I've seen people stress themselves to tears because they 'didn't do good enough' or give up a hobby or be unable to enjoy something because they're not 'as good as the other kids'. I'm tired of hearing that something is 'not a real flaw' because someone did it wrong.

As for stubbornness, I do enjoy using that as a double edged trait. It can help, but it can also get them in really deep crap.

edited 17th Dec '11 11:52:40 AM by JewelyJ

 137 Noir Grimoir, Sat, 17th Dec '11 5:01:42 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
Well I think a real flaw doesn't just make life harder for the flawed person but for others as well. If it doesn't do both than it's one of those things where people say it's a flaw, but it's not a character flaw, it's just a way to be able to say your character isn't perfect at everything. It's a "job interview flaw". In other words, a cop-out. Any flaw you could put on a resume isn't much of a flaw, in my opinion, unless you explore how it can be back in both spheres. Perfectionism can be a flaw, but you need to talk about how it annoys other people not just the person who has it.

Basically if it's listed as a Good Flaw on Good Flaws, Bad Flaws it probably won't act as a flaw properly in the story without significant effort to show how annoying it is, simply people don't treat it as much of a flaw.
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Total posts: 137
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