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Smoking Bans:

I want Kat's glasses!
However, tobacco manufacturers have argued that removing their brand names and company colours from packets will lead to a drastic cut in profits.
...And?
They Called Me Mad!! I decided to show them all; but when I looked on my works, oh mighty, I despaired: for it made me realize they were right.
 52 Ira The Squire, Wed, 15th Aug '12 5:49:44 AM from No idea. Measuring speed
Phyrexian Dalek
@ DG: smoking has around 40+ years of literature and a million studies to support its adverse effect on health. How many studies are there about thyroxine's link to obesity and how conclusive are they in comparison? Smoking is probably the most studied topic within the medical field. Comparing it with almost anything else in medicine is like comparing "whether an apple will fall downwards" with "whether or not not being a troper causes cancer".

edited 15th Aug '12 6:23:48 AM by IraTheSquire

I AM A DALEK!!

The human body is obscene. It must be replaced!
 53 Barkey, Wed, 15th Aug '12 7:13:25 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
God fucking damnit.

^^

How am I supposed to know which ones are my Malboro 54's then, smartass? At the very least make menthol one color and regular the other. I only smoke menthol.

I think if they ever did that in the US, I'm just going to make a bunch of money by patenting and marketing a sort of "Cigarette cozy" foam thing that fits snugly around your smokes. Then I can market them with all sorts of different logos, pictures, or even a website that lets you use your own image files or text input to customize it and ship to order.

edited 15th Aug '12 7:13:52 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 54 Fighteer, Wed, 15th Aug '12 7:45:49 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Frankly, smoking is such a disgusting habit that I am viscerally unable to comprehend why anyone would do it.

I mean hell, even if you believe in negative liberties, I have a right not to have to breathe the noxious fumes coming from your body.

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
^^By the writing on the packet?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
 56 Barkey, Wed, 15th Aug '12 9:42:49 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
^^

I only smoke in designated smoking areas, and never inside buildings(illegal in CA). Not my problem if you want to walk into a smoking area.

How is getting rid of the branding on the packs supposed to somehow stop smoking? All it's going to do is be really fucking obnoxious for people who already smoke and are trying to point out the type of smokes they want to buy across the counter.

Just seems really smarmy and obnoxious, without doing a whole lot else.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
Like most of these 'obnoxious' measures (including anti-smoking adverts), the real goal is to stop people from starting smoking in the first place.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
 58 Caissas Death Angel, Wed, 15th Aug '12 10:37:13 AM from Dumfries, SW Scotland Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
It's to stop people picking up on shiny colourful things in stores and being tempted to try it. Makes total sense.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
 59 Fighteer, Wed, 15th Aug '12 11:57:15 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Agreed. Barkey, the point isn't to reach existing smokers, although that's certainly a worthwhile goal. (My father died on his 66th birthday from complications of smoking. He had emphysema and was on full time oxygen, and smoked 1-2 packs per day. I know all about lost causes.)

The point is to stop it from being "cool" to start smoking in the first place. Mark my words - the tobacco industry (just like the alcohol industry) knows this. They know they have to start young if they want to keep them. Their biggest hurdle is getting that cigarette in your mouth for the first time.

Frankly, even if you smoke in designated areas, you stink afterwards. My wife is a sometimes-on, sometimes-off smoker. I know from her experience how hard it is to quit even a "casual" habit. When she smokes, I know it immediately as soon as I get near her. When my son and I get in her car to go on trips or errands, we smell it if she's been smoking in the car.

You may think your habit is transparent to those around you — you couldn't be more wrong.

edited 15th Aug '12 11:59:11 AM by Fighteer

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
I find the American style of being really really obnoxious about smoking to be quite aggravating. Is there an issue with politely asking or calmly showing negative side effects of smoking?

I remember one high school project these kids did was to find out the effects of smoking (these kids were smokers) and after finding out how horrible it was, they stopped thereafter. Education at a young age, lack of ads at all and putting them out of sight in stores makes sense to me.

Public bans on smoking are fine. I don't know if you want to go as far as Japan where they have smoking boxes you go into to smoke, I think that's just because they have a high population density so there's really no such thing as not smoking in someone's face the instant you leave your residence.

 61 Fighteer, Wed, 15th Aug '12 12:13:33 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Smoking boxes, followed by changing your clothes and showering, maybe. Don't forget brushing your teeth and using mouthwash. And if you smoke where you live, everything in your house smells like it. EVERYTHING.

I had to brace myself to walk into my father's apartment. The smell would sometimes make me nauseous. And when I went home, my wife would sometimes insist I change — she, who smoked casually, would tell me how much I stank.

edited 15th Aug '12 12:14:47 PM by Fighteer

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
 62 Barkey, Wed, 15th Aug '12 2:29:17 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Frankly, even if you smoke in designated areas, you stink afterwards. My wife is a sometimes-on, sometimes-off smoker. I know from her experience how hard it is to quit even a "casual" habit. When she smokes, I know it immediately as soon as I get near her. When my son and I get in her car to go on trips or errands, we smell it if she's been smoking in the car.

Whenever I smoke at work I find that I destroy the smell if I just find a sink, wash my hands and face with a bit of soap, and then dry off with a paper towel. Pretty much kills the smell.

I do that in the workplace. Out and about, as far as I'm concerned, you can just stfu and deal with it since I already smoke in designated areas and nobody is asking me to hug you or kiss you. Unless you want to make people eating curry in public illegal too.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 63 Fighteer, Wed, 15th Aug '12 2:31:24 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I will admit that a casual smoker doesn't inflict too much odor on people unless you're at a fairly intimate distance. If you're being respectful enough to clean up afterwards, that is.

What you can't clean up, though, is the odor that sticks to your clothes.

edited 15th Aug '12 2:31:50 PM by Fighteer

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
 64 Barkey, Wed, 15th Aug '12 3:53:13 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
It's not a terribly big issue when you aren't smoking indoors and you aren't a constant chimney.

The point is that I go out of my way to be polite and use discretion in my smoking, and it doesn't really do any good, which makes me consider the point of why I'm a polite smoker in the first place. There is no incentive for me not to be a dick about it if people still harass me over it. It's just give give give without a whole lot of tolerance in return.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
I don't see packaging doing anything but upsetting/annoying people either. It's not new information and people don't start smoking because of fancy packaging. People start smoking because of their peers, they'll usually borrow cigarettes when they start.....

That being said, I don't smoke and they've wasted a fortune in my family and amongst my friends, so I hope they just......go away someday.
Dumbo
Display bans do have an effect but it's only noticeable after you've killed the habit in primary/secondary education areas first. Removing fancy packaging doesn't matter, but allowing it to be prominently displayed in cigarette walls do have an effect.

Basically, the only way to buy smokes these days is to already know what you want to buy or research it on the internet.

edited 15th Aug '12 4:07:34 PM by breadloaf

 67 The Bat Pencil, Wed, 15th Aug '12 4:12:24 PM from Glasgow, Scotland Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
I have to admit, I've never really been able to smell people's smoke. It's just not something that I can pick up on for some reason. My mother, an ex-smoker, can smell it at about a hundred paces though.

Anyway, I've never personally had a problem with other people smoking but I do agree that these methods of preventing people picking up the habit are a good thing.
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
I don't have any problems with smokers so long as they aren't smoking near me. I have generally not seen anybody be impolite and I try not to be impolite in general to smokers. However, considering how harmful tobacco is, trying to incentivise people away from it and eliminating any second-hand smoke, makes sense to me.

Since hard bans are too hard to impose on habits that are this prevalent, I think we want to work toward reducing it to the point where a ban will actually work and then we can stop worrying about it.

 69 Oh So Into Cats, Wed, 15th Aug '12 5:09:27 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up][up]I think people who are former smokers are more sensitive. While yes I can smell a smoker, my mother can also smell them at a hundred paces as a former smoker, and unlike me, it really bothers her.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 70 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 15th Aug '12 10:12:14 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
@Fighteer:

frankly, smoking is such a disgusting habit that I am viscerally unable to comprehend why anyone would do it.

Funny, I feel the same way about energy drinks. And fast food. And a good many other things that seem to fly under the radar when people start wanting to wave the "unhealthy" flag.

Sure, tobacco use is bad for you. I challenge anyone to find a smoker or chewer who doesn't know this in today's world. But let's face it; so is just about everything else that tastes good, feels nice or gives any sort of joy. You can get cancer from the sun...want to outlaw going outside?

Smoking bans (and the general antipathy towards tobacco use in general) has less to do with the health concerns and more to do with the phenomenon of displacement. People have this tendency to target groups to which they do not belong regarding problems that affect everyone. Blaming "them damn smokers/drinkers/sex positive-ers is much easier when you don't do the thing...which is why you see taxes, bans and limitations on things like cigarettes and booze (which are admittedly unhealthy but not things everyone uses) but very little attempt to curb the rapacity of fast food (which is also unhealthy, but something everyone occasionally enjoys).

Oh wait, there's a supposed "flaw" in that argument. "Smoking affects others" you say, "But my eating junk food every day doesn't hurt anyone but me." Bullshit, complete and utter. Society pays for the mistakes of its members every time and all the time. Your bad eating habits? Reflected in my health insurance premiums. See how easy that was?

The cost is always considered "worth it" when it's carved off an ass that doesn't belong to you. Remember that the next time you think about advocating the ban of anything you don't indulge in.

Now, I think its great if a restaurant or bar wants to be smoke-free; those who don't indulge in tobacco probably don't want to smell it. But those of us who do (and the people who want to cater to us) feel differently...and hey guess what, we pay taxes too. * And like-minded people have the right to peaceably assemble, last time I checked.

Smoke-friendly establishments should have the right to exist. Don't like smoke? don't go into one, or work in one.

edited 15th Aug '12 10:18:01 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 71 Deviant Braeburn, Wed, 15th Aug '12 10:24:32 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up] Junk Food, energy drinks, and unhealthy eating as a whole may hurt society financially, but that's different from actually literally killing people with second hand smoke.

I'd like to see those studies.

edited 15th Aug '12 10:35:53 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 72 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 15th Aug '12 10:27:36 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
[up]I've seen studies (not conducted by the tobacco industry) that suggest otherwise.

Besides, what I was taking a potshot at is the self-righteousness inherent in the anti-smoking crusade. If it really was about health, then these same people would be just as against fast food and soda as they are about smokes. But they aren't, because that's not what this is about.

EDIT: I read them in print so I cannot link them.... basically what I got is that the risks are present, but currently overstated. Which leads to my other problem with the anti-smoking crusade: they are apparently allowed to use the same truth-distortion tactics they decry regarding the tobacco industry without anybody saying BOO! about the hypocrisy involved.

edited 15th Aug '12 10:36:11 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 73 Deviant Braeburn, Wed, 15th Aug '12 10:58:04 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up]I'd like to see those studies. Because I'm seriously doubting that eating French Fries while drinking Red Bull can hurt other people in non-financial ways.

Furthermore, the anti-smoking crusade is about health. Non-smokers health.

And comparing tobacco to the sun is weak. The sun provides a critical service for human beings to survive. Cigarettes do not. Yes, the Sun can give you cancer, but only if you stay out in the sun for a long time. Smoking on the other hand hurts people the moment you light the cigar/pipe/cigaret. And Sunlight is nowhere near as addictive as smoking is. Hell, even comparing Smoking to Drinking is off. You can't "Smoke reasonably" and you have to to consume a significant amount of alcohol before you can be a danger to anyone else.

[down]And I'm so sure your the average smoker./sarcasm

edited 15th Aug '12 11:08:14 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 74 Barkey, Wed, 15th Aug '12 11:04:48 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Bull fucking shit. That's what designated areas and no smoking indoors are for. I don't expose non-smokers to second hand smoke. At all.

I smoke outside my front door, which is on a balcony not connected to pathways to any other condos in my complex. At work I smoke at our designated smoking area, which is outside our back door, which nobody except the smokers uses. At the base, I smoke at my shops designated smoking area, which is a gazebo about 100 feet from the backdoor of the building, with a field in every direction.

I call absolute bullshit on second hand smoke being the reason.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 75 Balmung, Wed, 15th Aug '12 11:05:03 PM from Omaha, Nebraska Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
TsunderAI
...Well, this makes me feel rather petty for wishing UNO would issue a general campus smoking ban pretty much entirely because I loathe the smell of cigarette smoke.
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