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Smoking Bans:

 1 Wulf, Wed, 23rd Nov '11 8:23:14 PM from Louisiana
Gotta trope, dood!
At my university, there's a group attempting to make the entire campus a smoking-free zone* . Recently, they passed around a petition (not sure the number of signatures they got) to do just that. They seem to be picking up a bit of support, and I figured hell, let's see what the OTC hivemind has to say about this sort of thing.

  • Do you think smokers should be allowed to smoke on campus? Why/Why not?
    • If you feel they should, where? Inside the buildings themselves? A certain distance away from entrances? At certain designated areas? Only in their own dorms?
  • Whose rights are being infringed on more- The smoker being told to put his cigarette out, or the passerby who passes through a cloud of smoke on his way to class?

Actually, come to think of it, there's also some legislature being talked about to ban smoking in bars, casinos, and (I think) hotels, claiming that their employees aren't being given their right to clean air. Here's a few more questions-

  • Should bars & casinos be forced to institute no-smoking policies?
    • Should their management just be given a choice on whether or not to allow smoking?
  • Whose rights are being violated- The employees? The patrons? The owners? None of the above?

My own feelings on this'll come after seein' what everyone else has to say.

edited 23rd Nov '11 9:20:26 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?
 2 Drunk Girlfriend, Wed, 23rd Nov '11 8:26:38 PM from Castle Geekhaven
Mixed feelings, really. While I think that the 25ft ban is reasonable, I also think that the government shouldn't really have any say over what we choose to put (or to not put) in our body.

Edit: In terms of forcing bars/casinos/hotels/restaurants to implement non-smoking policies, I think that's a bit unwarranted. It should be up to the owners to implement decisions regarding their business, and if the patrons dislike it, they can go elsewhere.

edited 23rd Nov '11 8:28:30 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
There's no university campus ban here, but it's banned within buildings and near entrances. There's also a general ban for it in all public areas (including restaurants). Generally, it has made everything much much nicer and better, smokers haven't had much of a problem and the smoking rate in general has dropped quite a lot (but that's more likely due to anti-smoking education than bans).

> Do you think smokers should be allowed to smoke on campus? Why/Why not? If you feel they should, where? Inside the buildings themselves? A certain distance away from entrances? At certain designated areas? Only in their own dorms?

They have right to do what they want with their own body, as long as the smoke not disturbing other, they should be free to smoke. In their own dorms room (with roommate agreement) and in open areas like park.

> Whose rights are being infringed on more- The smoker being told to put his cigarette out, or the passerby who passes through a cloud of smoke on his way to class ?

Passerby, people should not be forced to inhale smoke.

> Should bars & casinos be forced to institute no-smoking policies? Should their management just be given a choice on whether or not to allow smoking?

No, if it private bar/casinos, the management (and the employee union) should decide. On bars or restaurant that attached to campus/public building, legislature can ban smoking if they want.

> Whose rights are being violated- The employees? The patrons? The owners? None of the above?

i think the employee, patrons can choose other place, employee can sacrifice employee health for profit. But regulating private place will simply be too intrusive, i prefer letting management decide what they want.

 5 Joesolo, Wed, 23rd Nov '11 8:42:41 PM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
They should have too keep off of most paths. Some areas they are allowed to smoke in would be fine, but you need to enforce rules keeping them away from the people who don't want tar in their lungs. You can kill yourself all you want, but you can't say it's your freedom to poison others.
I am going to shove the sunshine so far up where the sun don't shine that you will vomit nothing but warm summer days -Belkar
 6 Mark Von Lewis, Wed, 23rd Nov '11 11:11:59 PM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
I'm of a similar opinion as DG - it should be up to the business owner. It should be whomever owns the premises as to whether smoking is allowed or not.
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
 7 Barkey, Thu, 24th Nov '11 12:22:13 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
I think it's fair to only let smokers smoke in designated areas, so long as they are fair about where they put them.

Meaning don't put them on a college campus in a manner that involves a 5 minute walk to the nearest one from my class. That causes me to ignore the rule and smoke somewhere I feel is out of the way, then knocking out the cherry and putting the butt in a trash can.

As for businesses? I think businesses should decide to allow or not allow smoking as their own preference. There will always be a market for both types of clientele. You can't smoke in any bars in California, so if one were to open up in my city where you could smoke, it would get a lot of business. If most bars are smoking friendly indoors, then making one where you cannot smoke inside can attract more nonsmokers.

There's a happy medium to this. I hate anti-smoking crusaders, they piss me off because I'm a courteous smoker who tries to find out of the way places so nobody has to be exposed to it.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
Raven Wilder
My understanding was that smoking bans aren't there to protect other patrons from secondhand smoke, but to protect the employees from it. I mean, if the air inside a factory had a lot of toxic fumes in it, we'd expect someone from the health department to take action, right? Same basic principle applies here, unless bars and restaurants are willing to supply their employees with gas masks.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
I'm a smoker. I've been smoking for five and a half years (trying to quit, buying a *good* e-cigarette soon). I smoke about a half pack a day depending if I imbibe or not.

In my experience the smoking bans are ignored except for inside an establishment. I've smoked and seen smokers right outside bars and restaurant entrances. Cops (again, my own experience) generally don't care as long as you are outside. Personally I try to find a more secluded spot but that's not always feasible.

As for my opinion I believe it's up to the business owner. It's their establishment and they can set the rules. If you don't want to inhale secondhand smoke then don't work/go there. If it's outside well, I don't see how it's any worse than car exhaust or just the poor air quality of a major city.

I want Kat's glasses!
[up][up]That's the reasoning behind the nation-wide smoking ban in French bars and restaurants. I *think* you can still have designated areas with smoker staff, but I haven't checked.

Also, I think some "open" areas should be tobacco-free, like bus stops. Especially if it rains.

edited 24th Nov '11 1:00:25 AM by Medinoc

They Called Me Mad!! I decided to show them all; but when I looked on my works, oh mighty, I despaired: for it made me realize they were right.
Bus stops I'll agree to because those enclosures are small. By open areas I mean large spaces such as parks and sidewalks, basically anywhere the smoke can dissipate.

edited 24th Nov '11 1:25:41 AM by Advet

 12 Qeise, Thu, 24th Nov '11 6:39:29 AM from sqrt(-inf)/0 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
Specifically designated areas. Anything to keep the fumes off my face.
Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
 13 Major Tom, Thu, 24th Nov '11 6:42:06 AM Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
In Colorado it's state law you cannot smoke at any place of employment be it casinos, schools (includes Universities), restaurants, whatever.

You have to be outside and often off the premises entirely. (Schools are the main one on that.)

I voted in favor of it. I don't care if you smoke or not that's your choice, don't bring it into where I (or anyone else) work or do business to "share" with everyone whether they want it or not.

edited 24th Nov '11 6:43:33 AM by MajorTom

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
 14 Excelion, Thu, 24th Nov '11 7:49:58 AM from The Fatherland
People smoke directly outside of the Uni building and it's quite bothersome when you leave the building for fresh air only to be greeted with LOL THERE'S MORE CIGARETTE SMOKE THAN OXYGEN HERE.

I wish they'd do it somewhere else, don't really care about smoking bans generally, though.
 15 Caissas Death Angel, Thu, 24th Nov '11 10:25:06 AM from Dumfries, SW Scotland Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Medical students smoking right in front of the door to their own lecture halls/labs with a good four "no smoking" signs right above their heads always amused me.

I'm entirely in favour of smoking bans, as said above, they're there to protect employees and if we were talking about fumes in a factory there would be no question that they're entitled to said protection. I don't mind it in the entrances, because I can hold my breath for the three seconds it takes me to pass them, and I wouldn't have a specific problem with "smoker only" bars, but I'm not in favour of designated areas in bars generally. People who smoke are inconveniencing others, something they can choose not to do, and it should be them facing the consequences of not doing so rather than those who have no choice in the matter.

I do have to admit to being somewhat of a militant anti-smoker, but the militancy is more from personal preference - I don't rub it in the faces of smokers, though I have actually had smokers blow huge amounts of their shit in my face as revenge for no good reason. That ain't cool. I also happen to be somewhat sensitive to smoke; I don't have asthma, but before the ban in bars and restaurants here, about half the pubs in the country I couldn't stay in for more than 10 minutes or so without being physically sick. I rather appreciate not having to do that.

Interestingly, the ban was mostly accepted over here; fears of chaos and mass-disobeying of it proved unfounded. For all the mass demonstrations on the night itself, the next day it was more or less as if it had been always been in place. I expected that though - years ago, you could smoke on planes and in cinemas, and now the thought of that being legal is ridiculous.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
 16 Heavy DDR, Thu, 24th Nov '11 11:55:35 AM from Central Texas
What's Gravity Falls.
My university has a smoking ban. Has officially stopped no one. It's really annoying.

What the campus needs is designated smoking areas. We have people smoking outside the dorms, the buildings, in the parks, I mean, there's no stopping them. People have the right to clean air if they so choose, but smokers should also have the right to smoke. The only middle ground is designated smoking areas.
I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
 17 drunkscriblerian, Thu, 24th Nov '11 12:17:32 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
I'm a smoker (have been for years), so here's my take...

Do you think smokers should be allowed to smoke on campus? Why/Why not? If you feel they should, where? Inside the buildings themselves? A certain distance away from entrances? At certain designated areas? Only in their own dorms?

Outside, yes...and give them designated shelters where they may smoke, so that they aren't huddled up around doors making non-smokers miserable. My old college had several "butt huts" that were glassed-in structures resembling bus shelters; the smokers used them, and everyone was happy. In dorms...well, I have to say I'm against it. Smoking inside damages rooms; it's hell on paint and furnishings, and dropped cigarettes (which happen all the time) create damaged carpet that must be replaced. It's also all but impossible to get the stale smoke smell out of a room. Students don't own the dorm, and shouldn't be allowed to engage in activities that damage it.

Whose rights are being infringed on more- The smoker being told to put his cigarette out, or the passerby who passes through a cloud of smoke on his way to class?

In both cases its equal. Thus the efficacy of designated smoking areas that are contained. Though I will say; outside, I think non-smokers make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to second-hand smoke. I remember being a non-smoker (and this was back in the mid-90s, when smoking was a good deal more common) and not being all that bothered by outdoor smokers unless they were breathing it in my face. I found loud music, nasty cooking odors and those stupid buzzy exhaust systems on cars a good deal more annoying. I still do.

Should bars & casinos be forced to institute no-smoking policies? Should their management just be given a choice on whether or not to allow smoking?

Forced, no. I think that was a terrible idea. It drove several bars out of business where I live, and a good many others reported profit drops. This crept back up as people got used to the ban, but there's still a lot of people who just stay home and drink now because of it. If you own the place, you should be allowed to let people smoke there if that's the kind of business you want to run.

Whose rights are being violated- The employees? The patrons? The owners? None of the above?

The owners.

edited 24th Nov '11 12:18:30 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 18 Barkey, Thu, 24th Nov '11 12:24:47 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Pretty much what drunk said is how I feel on the matter.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 19 3of 4, Thu, 24th Nov '11 12:30:35 PM from Five Seconds in the Future. Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Feeble Turtle Duck
The thing with the "patrons can always go somewhere else" only works if there is someplace else.

Where i live there is a ban on smoking, which in my opinion is a bit draconic but generally i can live with it (I'm a cigar smoker...I smoke only once a couple days to something to drink while reading a good book and at home only in the back garden, never inside). In Summer i can (and do) smoke mostly outdoors. Now its winter and as a cigar smoker (which takes about 45 minutes to an hour for my average winter cigar) outdoors is not really an option.

So i was quite pleased a couple of months ago that I found an bar which had converted itself to an smokers club (with membership cards and you only can stay if you re a member).

The thing is...the city government doesn't like it. They send undercover people in to check upon it (card check etc) and it went before the administration court. So from the smokers perspective its like this:

- We can't smoke in bars and restaurants anymore.

- When there is a place which is purely for smokers (and employees of said place should be aware of that before seeking employment) its still not accepted.

The Problem is simply that (at least in Germany) "Banning Smoking to protect the other people in the room" becomes "Banning smoking because its bad for you and you are too stupid to realize it so we take away all the places where you can do it comfortably!" far too easily :/

edited 24th Nov '11 12:33:26 PM by 3of4

LMage: NO ONE ASKED FOR YOUR WITCHCRAFT THREE
 20 Barkey, Thu, 24th Nov '11 3:17:49 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
That's the thing I hate about smoking bans. The military is generally really good about where to put designated smoking areas, but on the civilian side I see a lot of overkill. They'll just go "Well sure you can still smoke here! Just go hike through mordor to the nearest butt can, in a way that is so inconvenient that we know you won't do it! LOOK HOW MUCH WE'RE HELPING YOU!"

Assholes, the lot of em. Making them out of regular peoples way isn't enough, they think they'll help us quit by making it 5 times more inconvenient than it could be just because they can. In these situations I just go find my own secluded place to smoke that is closer.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 21 Drunk Girlfriend, Thu, 24th Nov '11 3:21:08 PM from Castle Geekhaven
What's also not helping is when they take the ash trays away from doorways, but then don't put one in the "acceptable" smoking spot, then complain about butts everywhere.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 22 Barkey, Thu, 24th Nov '11 3:26:07 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Indeed. Though I find it incredibly lazy when people drop them on the ground when there's a trashcan nearby. It's not difficult to knock the cherry out and toss the butt in the trash, that's what I usually do on reflex.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 23 Major Tom, Thu, 24th Nov '11 3:40:37 PM Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Barkey it doesn't help that a fuckton of smokers ruin it for the rest of folks like you. Smoking bans usually arise because of those assholes blowing smoke in folks' faces, smoking more than a diesel with engine trouble while inside and flicking their butts all over the place.

Don't harass non-smokers for "inconveniencing" you when smokers are often (directly or indirectly) responsible for the bans in the first place.
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Well the smoking bans around here was specifically designed to eliminate smoking habits. It costs the government billions of dollars each year, so it's much easier to spend millions on anti-smoking and cut down the smoking rate to nothing.

 25 Blixty Slycat, Thu, 24th Nov '11 9:51:43 PM from Driving the Rad Hazard
|like a boss|
I will come right out and say this; I cannot stand being in the presence of smokers. Both for physical reasons (I have very severe asthma) and because I simply find smoking unpleasant, so my opinion here is far from unbiased.

But personally, I think that whether or not you choose to smoke in your own home is your choice, but the minute you put it in a public place I am totally against it, because you are now making me sick, and I am not going to avoid half of my town simply because people smoke there.

For the record, I have to deal with chainsmoking hospital employees standing in front of my house every day, so I apologize if I come across as a bit bitter on all of this.

edited 24th Nov '11 9:52:09 PM by BlixtySlycat

go ahead and do every stupid thing you can imagine
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