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Digital Piracy:

Change of plan! This discussion will now deal with all aspects of piracy- the morality, the financial aspect, and what have you. Previously, the thread was about only the morality, but the topic proved too big for us to discuss such an aspect without taking into consideration all of the other aspects of it.

In short, the discussion is no longer about whether piracy is "good or bad", but piracy itself, and your various opinions on it, whether you love it, hate it, or met it once at a party, and didn't really talk to it much.

edited 29th Nov '11 2:20:19 AM by DisasterGrind

 
I feel like I'm being bombarded with questions, so I'll only answer one. I also won't tell you which one I'm answering.

My answer: no.

 3 Michael, Sat, 19th Nov '11 2:46:40 AM Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
So that's what this does
The same questions could be asked of patents. Many innovations get destroyed because the smallest part of them just happens to infringe on an ancient and mostly irrelevant patent.
Balance - the original sixth sense.
Yes, it's definitely wrong. It's not murder (so no strawmanning, guys), but people who delude themselves into thinking it's moral are unbearable.

 5 Jeysie, Sat, 19th Nov '11 7:33:43 AM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
I feel piracy can only be possibly justified if there's either no feasible way to legally obtain something, or the creator can no longer benefit from payment, basically any situation where any payment or refraining from viewing would be an empty symbolic gesture.

Otherwise, if you want anyone to do any kind of work for you, they have a right to expect you to compensate them for working for you. Creative work is no different in this regard.

edited 19th Nov '11 7:34:52 AM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
 6 MRDA 1981, Sat, 19th Nov '11 7:44:30 AM from Hell (London), UK.
Tyrannicidal Maniac
[up]Also, if the only available official version of something is censored. I'm not gonna feel any pangs of guilt over denying censorship-colluders my cash.
Is pirating justified?
Yes. DRM is infringing upon my rights as a consumer to make copies for personal use after all.

Should people be able to download music and software with impunity?
They are. (also not all dowloading is illegal)

Or is it wrong?
I don't consider 'wrong' and 'justified' antonyms.

Are pirates stealing food from the mouthes of artists and their children?
lol. Loaded question much? Well, there's two arguments I hear a lot:
  • Pirates pirate stuff they would not have bought otherwise, so "no".
  • Dowloaders are the same people who on average buy more music, so "no" again.

Is piracy crippling innovation?
I dunno, the DRM schemes the publishers keep coming up with seem pretty innovative to me...

What do you think, tropers? Have you ever seen this many question marks before?
Sure have! Though, each coming with it's own sentence is quite refreshing wink

edited 19th Nov '11 8:10:30 AM by GreatLich

 8 Pink Heart Chainsaw, Sat, 19th Nov '11 8:11:44 AM from Land of Rape and Honey
PinkChainsaw
I don't think you should pirate new things. However it's good to pirate some old shows, games and what not. Simply because things like the wii market are simply milking out old franchises.
"If there is a hole then it's a man's job to thrust into it" - Ryoma from New Getter Robo
 9 Firebert, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:06:12 AM from Somewhere in Illinois
That One Guy
Piracy is wrong when the thing in question is easily obtained (e.g. available on Steam, iTunes, Amazon...). I feel okay playing ROM's of very old games, though, especially if I already own a copy of them.

edited 19th Nov '11 10:06:40 AM by Firebert

 10 Joesolo, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:11:20 AM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
I think it's wrong, but if impossible to get a legal copy then I'd think it's more justified. If you can't get a real copy, its probably legal anyway.
I am going to shove the sunshine so far up where the sun don't shine that you will vomit nothing but warm summer days -Belkar
Piracy is just another form of theft, so yes, it is wrong. I'm sure most of the people who pirate stuff wouldn't wander into a shop and steal a hard copy, and I don't see a difference between those two actions.

theft is not wrong fools

 13 Firebert, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:23:20 AM from Somewhere in Illinois
That One Guy
[up][up]That's why I'm saying it could only possibly be justified when such a copy is not available legally.

[up]Explain.
[up]x3 That analogy is flawed. Taking a copy is a two-step process: the thief gains a copy, and the store loses a copy. An electronic copy does not cause a loss in copy.

I don't think people should take things with impunity, but the way the arts are handled should be better. We shouldn't assume that the current laws pertaining to piracy are fine the way they are. Following the current laws is to be considered by the virtue of the value in being law-abiding, not because the laws are any good. If they are flawed, they should be changed.

Also, there's a difference between pirating things to copy works and trying to simply access things. We should keep the distinction in the discussion.

edited 19th Nov '11 10:33:59 AM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.
 15 Pink Heart Chainsaw, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:24:32 AM from Land of Rape and Honey
PinkChainsaw
I still don't support the system that Nintendo has. Such as you have to have a Wii to play those old games.
"If there is a hole then it's a man's job to thrust into it" - Ryoma from New Getter Robo
 16 Firebert, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:27:05 AM from Somewhere in Illinois
That One Guy
[up]I'm not sure how else they could make that work. [lol]
Moar and Moar and Moar
It's about as wrong as getting a loan of a work or buying things 2nd hand.

It's all a matter of experiencing content without paying the creator for it. It's pretty much the same thing.

Edit: Of course, my view is that all this is a necessary evil, but it's one that's so deeply ingrained in our society that good luck changing it.

edited 19th Nov '11 10:39:46 AM by Karmakin

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
ok heres an explanation of why stealing is not wrong

it benefits you for starters

the harm to stores is very minimal in any one case and actually makes the producer more money

and most likely the store exploits sweat shop workers as well as their own

 19 Pink Heart Chainsaw, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:43:09 AM from Land of Rape and Honey
PinkChainsaw
[up] Good point there cookie man. Finally someone gets me.
"If there is a hole then it's a man's job to thrust into it" - Ryoma from New Getter Robo
[up][up]That's a utilitarian thinking, but imagine if everyone did that. It becomes tragedy of the commons.

The best solution is more accessibility.
Now using Trivialis handle.
 21 Firebert, Sat, 19th Nov '11 10:47:44 AM from Somewhere in Illinois
That One Guy
Yup, accessibility is key. More things like Steam and iTunes covering everything would be very helpful.
[up][up] The tragedy happens only in an industry that's constructed in a way that piracy can hurt it.

There are also several media industries with revenue sources that pirates can't hurt, and the formers can be transformed into the latters with as little as a new business model.

edited 19th Nov '11 11:16:17 AM by Ever9

 23 Michael, Sat, 19th Nov '11 11:17:20 AM Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
So that's what this does
I would argue that piracy is closer to illegal abstraction than theft. You're not taking something, you're using it without the owner's consent.
Balance - the original sixth sense.
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
Piracy exists because it's convenient.

Someone takes the trouble of ripping it, cracking it and uploading it. Others take the trouble to search it, download it, and get the crack to work. Everyone on that chain does it because they don't want to pay 60 bucks for the goddamn game.

If they didn't have to pay for the game at all, and the only drawback was an ad during loadscreens/the game launcher... Would people even bother? Odds are, you'd just ignore the ad. A brought to you by: Insert Company here logo during loadscreens ain't enough of a hassle to crack.

Every time the someone logs in, they've seen the ad and you've made money with it. You could make big revenues on that model.

edited 19th Nov '11 11:20:26 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
[up][up]Piracy is closest to copyright infringement.

Every other term leads to Analogy Backfire at some point.

Total posts: 529
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