A topic on DRM

Just going through the E-PARASITES topic and seeing DRM mentioned, as well as a separate thread on the state of the entertainment industry, I kinda figured I'd open up a new can of worms in relation to Digital Rights Management.

Putting Steam aside for now (I may even mention it later), I have to say there are effective ways of implementing it, like attaching it to a basic function to render a cracked copy unplayable, and therefore affecting pirates as they are supposedly meant to, all while not making it really restrictive. However, the problem is that the counterintuitive methods are all too often used (like the Ubi DRM fiasco for both Assassins Creed II and From Dust for instance, the former of which I know of being cracked in a matter of weeks and not actually affecting pirates while screwing over legitimate customers when Ubisoft's servers went down).

In short, they are meant to fight piracy, which is a noble cause, but many methods do fall way short and put legitimate buyers on the short end instead. This is not limited to PC gaming either, so this is why I put it here.

edited 16th Nov '11 4:36:53 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

DRM is a waste of time.

The only people hurt by DRM are legitimate customers. Pirates will quickly crack or remove it and then not have to deal with it at all. There is NO effective way of implementing it, because there is no such thing as DRM that stops pirates in any way.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

For PC games—which is where this seems to crop up most—the best model I've seen is the Sins Of A Solar Empire one (by Stardock Games), wherein you can play the game without the disc, even, and put it on as many computers as you like, but without an activation code (which requires, obviously, buying the game), you get no online, no Impulse support, and no software updates. Just the vanilla game itself.

I am now known as Flyboy.

Please elaborate on how this could be done. (as a programmer, I've never seen a single copy protection method, actual or proposed, that was not neutralizable.*

^{there is the basic security principle of 'any algorithm created by a human being can be reversed or circumvented by a human being' in play here}

)

Out of the DRM options, that certainly sounds like the least obnoxious I've heard of.

edited 16th Nov '11 4:49:57 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

That seems fair. I'd be fine for all online components of every game (independent of platform, so 360 and such are included) being unavailable without a code.

Support Gravitaz on Kickstarter!

Hell, for a lot of games, that's unavailable with the code.

Of course, it's not impossible to create fake codes either.

Also, I thought this thread had something to do with the battle rifle from the Halo franchise.

go ahead and do every stupid thing you can imagine

DRM is attempting to attach colour to bits where none exists.

Nonetheless, algorithmic thinking is treason. Are you happy, Citizen?

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.

My only gripe is that Stardock forces you to install Impulse. I can't even play Galactic Civilizations 2 any more, because I can't download the updates because Impulse doesn't work right on my system and they don't offer any direct downloads.

Same reason I won't use Steam either. GOG is my fave site at the moment, because you can just buy and download with no extra software needed.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Yeah, I was kinda thinking something like this. Then again, the other DRM the example uses isn't exactly the best either, but so long as it's possible to make cracked copies unplayable (if it's humanly possible, so...). Then again, USAF's example is real good.

And I know it's most visible with PC games*

, but there's debates going on about its use in music and videos too, so I'd like to see takes on those.

And I LOVE using GOG, and the Indie Bundles too.

edited 16th Nov '11 5:53:29 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

That's trivially reversible, unfortunately. Even if the 'is this an illegal copy' check fails, you can simply reverse the consequences so that the moves are enabled instead of disabled under that condition.

USAF's example is pretty good, for games that have a strong dependency on the net. Since the verification is external, it's harder to hack. Then the reversal is about acquiring login details via keylogger, or the much harder task of hacking the server to consider bogus logins as valid.

All of the uses in music and video I've seen or heard of so far range from "thoughtlessly stupid" through "maliciously stupid" through "ignorantly stupid" through "overprescriptively stupid". I'd love to see an example that was actually grounded in a realistic assessment of the issues involved.

edited 16th Nov '11 5:40:10 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

This doesn't help with singleplayer games though.

Dumbo

It does in Batman Arkham City.

Fucking code.

@Jeysie: Impulse is superfluous to installing Galactic Civilizations II, provided you have the disc. Now, if you initially acquired it by download, that's a different story entirely. I'm actually fine with it, even though I can't seem to get Impulse to recognize my install info.

edited 16th Nov '11 5:47:59 PM by Balmung

@Balmung

There's no way to install the updates without Impulse, though. :/

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Well, I have Impulse, but it won't recognize my registration code for GCII Ultimate, but it's already only one patch behind being fully updated.

The worse part is that Game Stop bought Impulse.

edited 16th Nov '11 7:59:52 PM by Balmung

The problem with DRM is that the imagine benefit of implementing it is unlikely to exceed the cost. The truth is that publishers will spend millions on DRM and it loses them sales, so not only did they spend money on DRM, they lose sales, so it's a double whammy of nothing. Even if you presume it prevents all piracy, that doesn't earn you a cent so from an economic perspective and a corporate perspective, it appears to be nigh pointless.

edited 16th Nov '11 8:45:05 PM by breadloaf

I Think you may have wrote the opposite of what you intended to write there.

As long as the cost of the DRM and the loss of sales due to DRM do not exceed the projected loss of sales due to piracy it makes economic sense to implement the DRM.

^ Edited!

And usually it's doubtful it can stop piracy when most DRM is cracked before the game even comes out. Pirates gonna pirate.

DRM is like trying to make drugs and alcohol illegal, or swimming in gelatin, for a more mundane and less political analogy: the harder you fight, the more you get sucked in with no real benefit to your efforts.

You're still right—pirating, drugs, and drowning are all bad—but it's basically doing the worst possible thing given the situation...

USAF713 on his phone or iPod.

Now, about Steam:

I consider this one of the more tolerable DRM methods, if not the best (if such a thing exists), and hey, I use it often because convenience is nice*

. As for the DRM itself... I mean sure you have to run your Steam-bought titles (or anything with Steamworks attached in the case of retail) through the client, and it only refunds titles in exceptionally rare cases*

^{namely the messy releases of Grand Theft Auto IV and From Dust}

, but I'm fine with limitless installations and the ability to turn on offline mode*

^{what's really necessary is a once-in-a-month connection to the internet to activate, but then again, with many Steam games being multiplayer...}

. Overall, I like Steam, but I do miss the days of nostalgic PC gaming, and I do check GOG often.

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

Right; the idea of a "0-day crack" seems to be one that holds prestige amongst crackers.. the harder the DRM, the more the bragging rights. IMO unless you have a totally top-rank, experienced security specialist on payroll, you're not gonna beat the pirates. And if you DO have a really well locked down DRM, is it honestly not going to be obnoxious to your paying customers? This is a theoretically solvable problem — I bet about a handful of games have solved it so far, out of the countless hundreds of thousands that exist.

IOW it's winnable, just don't bet on winning.

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Generally, if you want to combat piracy in an effective way there are several ways that do work for certain types of media:

• Video games that have an online component can use a simple CD-key check. This is zero hassle to the customer and is difficult to break.
• Video games on controlled hardware can usually make it difficult to pirate things in a timely manner. For instance, it took a long time to break PS 3, likely lowering piracy by a lot... if only they had games to pirate
• DVD/Bluray movies usually come with paraphernalia to encourage you to purchase it. That's hard physical items that cannot be magically duplicated through the wonders of digital technology. Thus there's an actual collectible reason to purchase it versus the pirate edition.
• Software that relies heavily on updates can use a simple CD-key check

Most of the heavy-handed DRM tactics lose you so many sales (some studies say upwards to 20% if you can believe Stardock Inc) that there's no way in hell that it could be worth it.

In some ways DRM encourages piracy, as people will pirate the game they just bought because the pirate version won't have any DRM on it. And once you've discovered how to pirate stuff you own, that list of stuff also available that you don't own starts looking tempting...

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Actually, as I understand it, if you bought a copy, torrenting it (or otherwise "pirating" it) becomes a little more legally grey.

@Balmung

True, but the only way a pirated copy can exist for you to download is because, well, of regular piracy.

Plus like I said, once you take the time out to learn how to pirate stuff you legally own, it's that much easier to pirate stuff you don't. Whereas if you hadn't been forced to look for a pirate copy in the first place, you'd be much less informed.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)