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How about linking translations manually?

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MidnightMan Dichter and Denker from Northern Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#1: Nov 6th 2011 at 11:00:05 AM

Since the little language icons are still absent, and there is no halfway easy way to find out whether and to what a page has been translated, I'd like to suggest that we could link pages in different languages to one another manually.

I'm thinking of something like this:

For example, at the bottom of Animation Age Ghetto, we add
Deutsch: Zeichentrick ist was für Kinder

Vice versa, at the bottom of Zeichentrick ist was für Kinder, we add
English: Animation Age Ghetto

To avoid a centralized structure with the English page as the hub, I furthermore suggest that, for example, a Spanish translation would be linked to on both the German and the English page.

This would require some work from the Tropers, but it'd be a doable solution which we could start now, and if the flags come back as a stable feature, we can easily remove it again.

Welcome to the Signature, Mon
INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#2: Nov 6th 2011 at 11:06:43 AM

It would definitely be a good placeholder system...

edited 6th Nov '11 11:07:12 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#3: Nov 6th 2011 at 4:29:53 PM

I would be willing to readily start crosslinking and checking some links for at least the Spanish pages if this is approved.

Also, sounds like a pretty workable method of organization to avoid losing the knowledge of the other language pages to the "common knowledge" meanwhile the staff prepares seomthing, which from an old TW thread I remember it was, paraphrasing, "in consideration, but low priority".

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
MidnightMan Dichter and Denker from Northern Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#4: Nov 27th 2011 at 9:59:15 AM

Okay, this has been on for three weeks. Nothing from the mods and admins yet, neither a positive nor a negative response?

Maybe we should simply start doing it or at least work out a standard if we don't have one yet.

Welcome to the Signature, Mon
troacctid "µ." from California Since: Apr, 2010
#5: Nov 27th 2011 at 10:14:06 AM

If you add De.Animation Age Ghetto as a redirect to Zeichentrick ist was für Kinder, it'll show up on the subpages list for Animation Age Ghetto.

Rhymes with "Protracted."
MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
MidnightMan Dichter and Denker from Northern Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#7: Nov 27th 2011 at 11:59:25 PM

Mine or Troacctid's? For I sort of like Troacctid's idea to put original titles into language namespaces as redirects.

I just don't know if that'll work the other way around, too, i.e. if it'll provide a link from a translated page to the original page.

Welcome to the Signature, Mon
troacctid "µ." from California Since: Apr, 2010
#8: Nov 28th 2011 at 12:03:41 AM

[up] To do that you would need to make Main.Zeichentrick Ist Was Fuer Kinder a redirect to Animation Age Ghetto.

Rhymes with "Protracted."
MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#9: Nov 28th 2011 at 8:51:13 AM

[up][up]Your idea, but Troamajiggy's could work. Might cause a whole bunch of strange redirects from other languages' view, though, and you'd need to do a similar thing for every language name if you want the things to show up anywhere on non-English pages.

20LogRoot10 Since: Aug, 2011
#10: Nov 28th 2011 at 9:12:14 AM

It might be better to have the English redirect be in at En.Translated Trope Name if only to be consistent.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
MidnightMan Dichter and Denker from Northern Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#11: Nov 29th 2011 at 11:02:06 AM

Okay, we have two possible solutions now, both of which will not require any changes on the Wiki's code on the admins' side but only work done by Tropers.

My solution has the advantage of being easier to remove if necessary and not requiring additional pages (the redirects), but the links would be hard to find, and it's more of a kludge actually.

Troacctid's solution has the advantage of being more elegant and neither requiring scrolling to the bottom of the page nor taking up page space because it'd use functionality already built into the Wiki instead, but it'd require two redirect pages whenever a translated trope title is different from the original title (none when they're the same, in this case the links already exist).

I'd like to hear what the staff has to say about them before we take any further steps. (Also, I hope they won't nix both of them.)

Welcome to the Signature, Mon
MidnightMan Dichter and Denker from Northern Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#12: Nov 13th 2012 at 11:25:55 AM

Well, more than a year, and nothing really happened...

That is, one thing did happen. I occasionally spotted language links at the bottom of pages with a two-character language code in front, like this:

En:Link to the English page

or

De:Link to the German page

It is a kludge of sorts, yes, but it works, it's not too obtrusive, and, as I said a year ago, it's easy to remove once it isn't needed anymore unlike thousands of redirect page pairs.

Maybe a space could be put after the colon for style reasons, but otherwise I've started to use it myself now.

Welcome to the Signature, Mon
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#13: Nov 15th 2012 at 10:52:38 PM

There's an idea that's been batted around off and on for identifying works' forum threads and having them automatically linked to from there. A system like that would make it easier to do other things, including associating pages with their translations.

FELH2 TV Tropes' very wikibot Since: May, 2012
TV Tropes' very wikibot
#14: Nov 21st 2012 at 10:32:26 AM

This is a very interesting idea, Mr. Wick. Where can I read more about it? In fact, I might even participate in the programming - if I knew more about this very database worked, that is.

For example: What would happen if there was more than one discussion thread for a certain work?

Get rid of the walled garden
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#15: Nov 21st 2012 at 10:36:13 AM

Officially, there's not supposed to be more than one per work in the media subforums, as that's against the general rules. There are a couple of cases where a specific sub-topic related to the work got its own thread, but I don't see that being a major issue.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
FELH2 TV Tropes' very wikibot Since: May, 2012
TV Tropes' very wikibot
#16: Nov 22nd 2012 at 10:25:15 AM

Actually, this should make things even easier. Now I don't know how This Very Wiki's database is designed, but all we would need is another column for the table with the works, which stores the ID of the according thread.

edited 22nd Nov '12 10:25:28 AM by FELH2

Get rid of the walled garden
LongLiveHumour Since: Feb, 2010
#17: Mar 2nd 2014 at 2:04:01 PM

*lightning strikes*

IT'S ALIIIIIIVE!

It's now two years after the 2012 apocalypse and the alternate-language trope and works pages are still awfully hard to find. I haven't seen any pages linking to their alternate languages, and I'm willing to bet that most tropers don't even know there are TvTropes pages in Hungarian, Spanish, German and Yoda. Is it possible to add a small tool to let us see a page's translations? Something along the lines of t'other Wiki's language sidebar would be wonderful - maybe one more sidebar button, under "toys"? Even if we have to put in the links manually it'll still be a huge improvement on what we have now. Right now if I want to translate a page which links to They Just Didn't Care, and I want to find the corresponding trope in Spanish (which I know was discussed at some point), all I can do is trawl through the indexes listed in Es.Wiki Tropos until I find it - and sometimes the name is quite different. In this case Es.Ni Se Molestaron is listed under Es.No Hizo La Investigacion, but the English version isn't in the equivalent index.

Having some sort of language bar would also make the non-English trope wikis more visible and more active - lots of tropers aren't native English speakers, and if more people get involved we might get new work pages in other languages, which could then be translated into English. Which would be brilliant.

(And apparently page creation is being revamped. It'd be hilarious if the change came out tomorrow with a shiny new language option. Hint hint hint *waves cake at mods* HINT HINT CAKE)

edited 2nd Mar '14 2:04:27 PM by LongLiveHumour

Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#18: Mar 2nd 2014 at 2:29:31 PM

Until the new page creation system (as I don't know if or how it would affect this), what about using namespaces and redirects? Make De.Willing Suspension Of Disbelief a redirect to De.Bereit Zu Glauben, and make Main.Bereit Zu Glauben a redirect to Main.Willing Suspension Of Disbelief. "De" would be listed in the subpage list in the sidebar for Willing Suspension of Disbelief, making it easily accessible.

edited 2nd Mar '14 2:30:31 PM by Telcontar

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
LongLiveHumour Since: Feb, 2010
#19: Mar 4th 2014 at 4:09:54 AM

*flings cake at you* I can't believe I never thought of that. And... yep, it shows up fine. [awesome][awesome][awesome]

edited 4th Mar '14 4:12:38 AM by LongLiveHumour

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