Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Nightmare of Nunnally

Which do you choose, and why?

You guys already know which one I'm going with.

Lelouch of the Rebellion because Nightmare of Nunnally was incredibly boring and more or less dropped everything I liked about the first series.

Lelouch of the Rebellion.

I'm happy with how it turned out... Except Lulu dying... Or Is It?

I'd say R1 of the anime is better than Nightmare of Nunnally, but R2 wasn't. And the rest of the manga... Well, Shikkoku no Renya isn't too bad, but it's almost unrelated to the franchise

Lelouch of the Rebellion is flawed, but contains a lot of stuff I like.

No N cuts out pretty much everything I liked about Code Geass, adds underage panty shots, and is in an art style I dislike.

Only for the first couple of volumes. After that, they're cool about it.

And don't try to use some double standard to say all those times the camera would randomly focus on C.C.'s ass and completely ruin anything serious about a given scene in the anime were any better.

OTOH, CC isn't underage.

That doesn't make it any more classy in the grand scheme of things.

I can ignore fanservice when there is a story I enjoy. If there isn't, it's just obnoxious.

Nightmare of Nunnally, that's for sure. It was different enough to keep me reading, and I enjoyed seeing how it played around with the continuity. What can I say, the Lelouch of the Rebellion manga didn't add anything really new to the mix.

No N was pretty good (annoying translator who thinks everyone wants to read about his opinions and stupid meme references nonwithstanding), but it doesn't compare to the anime, I'm afraid.

Pretty much this. The last six chapters were somewhat interesting, but everything before that was fairly boring. I'm also not a fan of the way the anime's moral ambiguity is dropped in favor of randomly assigning absolute moral alignments to characters.

edited 25th Oct '11 8:59:55 AM by silver2195

Anyone who thinks the anime had moral ambiguity doesn't want to admit Lelouch is evil.

Evil on which particular basis? I mean, if you're talking about the Fridge Horror inherent in the Zero Requiem, sure, but I can't think of much else. Stupid? Yes. Ruthless? Yes. Just can't remember much flat-out evil.

If I am remembering correctly, he blown up some Japanese fleet he was supposedly trying to rescue, making it look it was suicide, just so he could get the wanted reaction from his Black Nights. This was the only time in the first season I felt he had gone too far.

Aside that, yeah, I feel anyone who call him absolutely evil is largely overstating. Since the start he had many moral standards he wouldn't let it go until near the end. And, while he is a egocentric, he is far from egoistic, which says a lot for a supposedly evil overlord.

And when he blamed the Euphemia thing on... Euphemia.

And when he caused Tokyo to get blown up and tried to blame it purely on EVIL Britannian science (yeah, I didn't forget you're the one who put the Live Geass on Suzaku and then told Kallen to try killing the guy with the Live Geass, dumbass).

Now don't try to church up the circumstances of how he finally revealed himself and admitted to all the things he had done as Zero. Even then, it was a matter of "Schneizel revealed me and I have no way to deny it; Curse him for meddling my efforts (which I never would have ceased if it weren't for this)!" and not "Okay, I've lost my way and have caused far too much suffering. I'm going to come clean because it's the right thing to do."

And how can you not call Lelouch egotistical? He literally thinks he's the only person in the world competent enough to defeat Britannia and save the Elevens.

edited 25th Oct '11 12:55:00 PM by Dragonzordasaurus

And when he caused Tokyo to get blown up and tried to blame it purely on EVIL Britannian science (yeah, I didn't forget you're the one who put the Live Geass on Suzaku and then told Kallen to try killing the guy with the Live Geass, dumbass).

Oh, come on. You really want to blame him for operating on shaky intel when his enemies threatened to nuke the largest city in Japan? There was no other conceivable way that he could have stopped the FLEIJA warhead, and even he could not have anticipated that the geass on Suzaku would interpret 'live' as 'blow up a city' rather than, say, 'eject'. Dude just got hammered by a Diabolus ex Machina after taking a moderately risky strategy when there were few good decisions around.

As for Euphinator, pinning the blame on the princess was ruthless, sure, but it was the only way he could salvage something for both himself and Japan from what was rapidly turning into another Britannian massacre. Particularly since the Britannians were clearly no longer interested in negotiating, which meant bad, bad things for any Elevens under their thumb.

Again, sometimes Lelouch was ruthless. Sometimes he was stupid. However, apart from Zero Requiem, I can't think of many, if any, times when he was actively evil.

This argument might work if this had been the first time Lelouch had been proven to be fallible. But it wasn't.

In fact, it shows Lelouch only becoming worse with the things he's wrong about. The first time he fucked around with his chances, he accidentally brainwashed Euphie into going on a killing spree and killing thousands of people with conventional weapons. The second time he fucked around with his chances, he accidentally brainwashed Suzaku into launching a nuke and killing millions of people with a WMD. Instead of making an active effort to be more careful, Lelouch only ends up making bigger blunders.

Fool me once, etc.

Because Lelouch was totally going to know that 'Live!' would translate to 'Nuke Tokyo!' later on in life.

He also didn't know his Geass would screw up on him, let alone that very second.

Events outside his control don't make him evil. Unbelievably unlucky, yes, but certainly not evil.

Except the Geass power is something he really desperately shouldn't ever allow to be outside his control. You can't blame bad luck if a gun you are waving around goes off and shoots someone; Geass is basically the same deal. C.C. talks about how it alienates people and messes them up for a reason.

Not that this is an issue of someone being evil or not, but it is an indication that Lelouch probably shouldn't have the power at all if he is so prone to fucking up with it.

This isn't anything unique to Geass, either. Getting fucked over by your inability to control your gained power is a pretty standard trope to Be Careful What You Wish For / Deal with the Devil type stories.

That is why I said he is egocentric. He is absolutely sure he is always right and he is the best person to solve any problem it might ever exist. But for all the shit he have done, he was never trying to attain any personal gain, which is why I say he is not egoistic.

To be fair, he do act egoistical at times... when he endanger the whole rebellion to save Nunally and to get Suzaku on his side. But even then, he never tries to have personal gain, which still say something about him.

At any rate, blaming Lulouch for the nuking of Tokyo is just plain stupid. There was no way in hell he could foresee that happening. Even if he knew how that particular command would work at the time he gave it (he wasn't aware something like Fleya existed back then, nor that someone would be stupid enough to give it control to a single unstable guy).

As I said before, there was no way for him to foresee the consequences of this particular command. Also, if you remember, he was desperate and frustrated when this command was given. He had haven't any time t formulate it better. HE just voiced what he desperately wanted his friend to do (i.e. "live").

Yeah, you could say it was stupid and irresponsible of him. But hardly 'evil'. Even you believe he is evil, there is no way to interpret this particular action as any shade of 'evil'.

Oh, that. Yeah, you certainly can argue that. So what? Are you saying he is to fault for being flawed? Or that the story shouldn't happen in the first place?

I hope you are not implying he is more prone to fuck up with this power then anyone else, at last. If memory serves me right, there is exactly two times his power went wrong. Lulu was actually very meticulous testing it before using it in large scale. Assuming someone is whiling to use the power in the first place, Lulu is actually the person who I expect to fuck up less with it. Can you imagine someone like Suzaku or Kalen with it? (or course, I am not counting people who simply would use the power at all)

edited 25th Oct '11 4:14:02 PM by Heatth

Derailed thread is derailed. And there's little point in arguing about whether Lelouch is evil. If you really want to continue that, shouldn't you take it to the Code Geass main thread?

Lelouch of the Rebellion

Knightmare of Nunally lacks the Refuge in Audacity and goes downhill after Narita.

Starting a thread with nothing but a link to locked thread? Bad karma.