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Split into 'Library that has everything' and 'Magical library': The Library Of Babel get usage counts

 1 Santos L Halper, Wed, 19th Oct '11 12:39:28 PM from The Canterlot of the North
A Gentlecolt and a Bard
There's a Jorge Luis Borges short story by the same name as this trope. May I suggest renaming this page?
Belted plaid and mane sae braw,
Bonny Pony, Skyland Pony,
Have yet been at Canterlot,
Bonny Pony, Skyland Pony?
You had the title and the article switched. Fixed it.

At 138 wicks and 583 inbounds, that's a bit too much to rename just because it shares a name with a work. Is it being confused for the work at all?
 3 Deboss, Wed, 19th Oct '11 2:24:47 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
For the record, the work should always be in the appropriate Namespace, the short story should be on The Library of Babel. I think our policy on "tropes named after works" has several "this one is okay" qualifiers. I think they're: songs, shortstories, and works that named themselves after tropes.

edited 19th Oct '11 2:25:11 PM by Deboss

[up]Agree 100%. I think it works as is. If anyone wants to write a work page, there is always the Literature/ namespace.

 5 Micah, Wed, 19th Oct '11 5:29:01 PM from the Midwest
And a work page isn't even all that necessary, since the general Jorge Luis Borges page exists and is only about 60 lines long.
132 is the rudest number.
 6 Zyffyr, Tue, 25th Oct '11 10:04:06 PM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
Do we need anything further here?

A cleanup of the descriptin.

We only need the information of the third pragraph , and even this one is not as compact as it should be.

 8 Catalogue, Wed, 26th Oct '11 12:49:52 AM from where the good times are
A pocketful of saudade.
Yeah, the short story should go under the Literature namespace.

That said, I don't really like the name.
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
 9 Camacan, Wed, 11th Jan '12 7:23:55 PM from Australiatown
Wow, that's a positively misleading name. Nothing to do with the tower of babel. Naming from an obscure work reference that usually means something else entirely was a terrible idea. Fairly good wicks, weak inbounds, considering. How about a misuse check?

 10 Oreochan, Wed, 11th Jan '12 7:38:40 PM from Pennsylvania
Yeah, it can be easily mistaken as being associated with the the tower of babel I'll get the wick check up soon.

edited 12th Jan '12 3:41:37 AM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
"Misuse" implies there is a correct use... what is it?
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
An impossibly large library; contains any information that you might need.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 13 Oreochan, Wed, 11th Jan '12 7:49:49 PM from Pennsylvania
I think this trope is a large, elaborate, and ancient looking library where you can find almost any book, tome or scribe you are looking for.Often, a place for Mac Guffins, where one would go to find secrets of the world that almost no one knows about.All sorts of supernatural things can happen in it too. Also heroes and villains alike usually all want to go for its infinite amount of knowledge and Mac Guffins, so there might be elaborate traps too. Heroes and villains often fight in the library to claim very important information that is necessary for their goal, in this process the library might get destroyed or destroy itself to preserve information that might corrupt the universe. This library is often hidden somewhere where no one usually will think it will be and won't find without a special map or something.

edited 11th Jan '12 8:16:40 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
That sounds shockingly like a good trope description.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 15 shimaspawn, Wed, 11th Jan '12 7:55:43 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
It doesn't help that the page image has no books on it, the name is terrible, and the description menders into all sorts of irrelevant tangents.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Dragon Writer
Names that start with "The" are terrible almost by definition.

Especially when there's a specific Trope Namer, due to potential misuse between whether a link is referring to the trope's definition or just its Namer (i.e. "The Mario", "The Umbridge").

edited 11th Jan '12 8:18:14 PM by Stratadrake

 17 Oreochan, Wed, 11th Jan '12 8:18:21 PM from Pennsylvania
Yes, the description has too much Purple Prose and filled with tangents. That page needs fixing, a better image, and name.

edited 11th Jan '12 8:52:28 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
 18 Oreochan, Thu, 12th Jan '12 1:20:51 AM from Pennsylvania
A redirect for the trope is Great Big Library of Everything.

Edit: Disregard that comment about the alt title, I misread.

In that mini description I made. I forgot to mention the most of time only people who are usually allowed to work there protect the place, are in the library virtually all the time and always add new information. They are often scholars, sages and anyone with worldly knowledge. It may also have underground chambers or actually hidden underground. May also include to have Magic Librarians, monsters who act as guards and unusual other beings working there too. Also these libraries are sometimes magic based or technology themed. Of course techno based ones don't tend to look old but usually are. These places also might be a Gate of Truth.

Really, the page should list sub tropes like that one.

Other items found in these libraries:Great Big Book of Everything, Tomes of Eldritch Lore and Tomes of Prophecy and Fate.

Okay, Wick check is up. As expected, in some wicks, they meant Jorge Luis Borges's short story but there is a lot of One Word Examples. Also, The Tower of Babel has it's own page, so I'm not seeing it much. I hope did a wick check correctly.
Correct

Examples and descriptions from other trope pages:

Correct Potholes:

  • Magic Librarian: Well, the description says it's mystical and large, but some of the examples on there seem to think its just big.
  • Monster Clown: Is correct. It says that the harlequins protect the library fro being used for evil.
  • One-Product Planet: An accurate description of the library.
  • Pajama Clad Hero: the pothole is for Mahou Sensei Negima!'s Library Island, which is also a school library. I read some of the series so I think it fits mostly. It is abnormally huge, has all sorts of priceless information and books about magic.

Needs more content/context and are basically One Word Examples

Is actually for the short story I made them all not to link to this trope.
I hope I did enough wicks. Anyway, X Just X and Correct usage are almost the same rate. Ones for the short story were surprisingly low.

edited 6th Feb '12 8:08:47 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Often Partisan
I have seen this term used by Dan Dennett to describe a library with every possible book in the world in it (including the majority that would just be complete gibberish). So the term has some form of reference outside TV Tropes for a very large library. Just for reference.

@Often Partisan: I'm doubtful that in your example it's used as a term. I rather think it was just a reference to Borges, not an attempt to coin an established term.
 
 21 Oreochan, Thu, 12th Jan '12 3:25:18 AM from Pennsylvania
Does anyone think Magical Library can be split from this trope? I'll can see it for some reason.

edited 12th Jan '12 3:42:32 AM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
 22 shimaspawn, Thu, 12th Jan '12 3:51:34 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I can see a split. There's a difference between "Library that has ever book ever" and "Library that is Magical". Often times in fantasy series a Magic Library is quite small.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 23 Oreochan, Thu, 12th Jan '12 3:57:45 AM from Pennsylvania
Yes, and there usually not that big. I think we can split to stop them from being lumped in with this trope.
"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
 24 shimaspawn, Thu, 12th Jan '12 3:58:58 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
If we do do a split, more descriptive names for both would probably help the tropes from being confused.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 25 Oreochan, Thu, 12th Jan '12 4:02:22 AM from Pennsylvania
Yes, what do you suggest for them? The Library That Has Everything or The Library That Has Every Book for The Library of Babel? Those library, book and librarian tropes really need an index, which I'm planning to create later.

Also, the libraries in The Library of Babel are really quiet and noise is almost never made and most people never hear much about them. But in a Magic themed Library, more people know about it and people actually go and find them easier, and usually magic themed ones might have more MacGuffins. Also, mentor often take young mages there to learn aout all sorts of spells and artifacts.

Forbidden spells might be hidden in it somewhere, so villains usually go for them. But in both tropes, Great Big Book of Everything, Tomes of Eldritch Lore and Tomes of Prophecy and Fate, might be used. That being said, I can't really think of any descriptive names for Magical Library.

edited 12th Jan '12 4:56:15 AM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."

Alternative Titles: The Library Of Babel
13th Feb '12 10:49:34 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
Previous crowner showed consensus support for making "library of everything" and "magical library" tropes. This crowner is for voting on the name of the "library of everything" trope which will take on the concept of a library that contains every work in existence.
Total posts: 135
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