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Hyrule: Total War :

 51 Kostya, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 6:41:49 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] You don't have to actually ask him if you don't want to. I was just curious but I can live without knowing if you think it's a bad idea.

[up][up][up]He dislike cartoon stylized Zelda games, like Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. These games have becoming more and more common lately, which he is very much unhappy about.

 53 Kostya, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 8:32:52 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] Why is the art style that big a deal with some people? Besides, WW is one of the darker games in the series yet he likely hates it.

Anyway I've been watching his videos on youtube. This game is definitely something I'm gonna pick up at some point.

 54 Tarsen, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 8:42:47 PM from FC: 2165-5763-7629 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
A little dry.
its just a matter of opinion.

he seems to be a guy who prefers darker and edgier

and just cant take a game seriously when its not.

i dont agree with it, and in fact i find it kinda insulting, but whatever.
Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
He usually has not much to say against WW, actually. He clearly dislike the art but he seems to think it is a good game, overall.

He biggest problem is some of the most recent games don't take itself seriously. Which characters acting (not only looking) cartoonly, with silly exaggerated reactions that spoil the mood. Also the goofy looking enemies who don't look a tiny bit threatening.

I say he has a point, myself. I don't care much myself, but some recent games do take itself too lightly. I am not saying the series should be all gritty and adult, but compare the "mood" of games like the Oracles series and Majora Mask and Minish Cap and Spirit Tracks.

Then again, Neph is acting with anger too Skyward Sword based solely on the previews, which is pretty premature of his part. He seems to be level headed enough to not let it completely cloud his judgement, however, as he liked the intro video.

 56 Kostya, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 8:48:37 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up][up] As do I. He seems to be the type of Zelda fan I...okay hate is a strong word. He's the type of fan that just wants to suck all the whimsy and fun out of the Zelda series. That kind of stuff can be good for fanfiction and fangames but keep it out of my official Zelda stuff.

[up] Okay, insulting ST is just not something I agree with. That game was just so unique and full of lampshades that I couldn't help but love it. Also WW was darker than it's graphics implied and I feel SS will be the same way.

He evidently likes OOT but that seemed to have a pretty lighthearted mood rather than this grim and dark thing he seems to be focusing on.

edited 22nd Oct '11 8:51:16 PM by Kostya

[up]I agree WW was darker then implied, and I also agree SS seems to be taking this road. But I think Neph has a point about ST. Personally, I am able to enjoy the game and find it fun enough, but it is kinda silly sometimes, and hard to take too seriously. You praise it calling "full of lampshades", but that only emphasize how much the game don't take itself seriously. I would hate if the main games of the series took that path, even if such mood is fine for a side quest.

Oh, well, I don't think the series is taking this path. The few we know of SS shows what seems to be a nice serious story and even if it has stupid goofy enemies like this, it also has enemies like this.

I think Neph is only anger because all Zelda games released recently are toony side quests. Hopefully SS will change his mind.

Ocarina of Time with lighthearted mood? Really? It is not grimdark, yeah, but hardly 'light'. Heck, a few passages are downright creepy (although not as much as Majora's Mask, of course).

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:02:22 PM by Heatth

 58 Kostya, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:02:45 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] I don't want the series to be that though. That's why I love ST so much, because it's just so unique and unlike the games I've played.

While it was certainly fun I want and expect SS to return the series to it's traditional place on the sliding scale.

edit: Okay, lighthearted isn't exactly the best way to put it. It's just not some grim and dark thing that he seems to want. The game has some really silly moments: King Zora shuffling out of the way, Ruto proposing to Link, the Goron hug, and some of the side character stuff.

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:06:30 PM by Kostya

 59 Tarsen, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:03:41 PM from FC: 2165-5763-7629 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
A little dry.
side quests?

uh, i dont think so.

edit: although i suppose i should ask what you mean by that.

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:04:43 PM by Tarsen

Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
 60 Colonial1. 1, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:04:43 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
Hmmmm... Even though you've read the thread, Heatth, do you still have any questions?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
[up][up]For "side quest" I mean every game which is not a main game Zelda. The 'main game' are the main console games, like WW, TP and OoT. I guess 'side quest' is not quite the best term, but I think there is a clear difference between these games and the others.

[up][up][up]"Like that" what? 'Serious'? Or 'devoid of fun moments'? Personally, I would like the series to find a balance. Having most games in the middle term (taking itself seriously but not devoid of fun) which an occasional game extra dark or extra light games. Both on terms of storytelling and of art style (btw, I think SS is a nice spot in the middle).

[up]Nah. If I had one I would ask in the thread myself (I have been being quite active there). Why aren't you doing so yourself, incidentally?

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:13:24 PM by Heatth

 62 Kostya, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:13:08 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] That's what I meant. Serious, no nonsense stories are alright for some series but Zelda was never like that and doing so would actually be contrary to how Miyamoto originally envisioned the series.

 63 Tarsen, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:13:46 PM from FC: 2165-5763-7629 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
A little dry.
ive always considered all zelda games to be main games.

except fourswords for being around an hour in length and not having much to help place it on the timeline. and foursword adventures for having a different ganon.
Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
 64 Colonial1. 1, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 9:16:01 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
...OHO! He's started on the Ikana.

And yes, I just figured out how to post without it getting eaten.

Gentlemen, enough of this, please.

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:16:27 PM by Colonial1.1

Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
[up][up][up]Just because the created envisioned the series one way it doesn't mean it is the best way. Specially since said creator have lost the creative control quite a long time ago.

Anyway, the "serious, no nonsense" is not what I hope for the series myself. I just hope for "serious". And even then I agree it can take a step for a 'lighter' mood every now and again, as log as it also takes a step for a 'darker' occasionally. And by 'darker' I don't mean overly grimdark stuff. I mean things like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess (and MM itself has some silly moments, even if it is considered the creepiest game in the series).

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:19:48 PM by Heatth

 66 Colonial1. 1, Sat, 22nd Oct '11 10:41:25 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
More questions, more answers.

I see.

A) Who will they have for cavalry and ranged auxiliaries?

B) Another question from my colleague: How much is Tarm tied to the Holodrum? Are the forms mostly original ideas or if they aren't where did he draw them from in the games? Will they have some sort of tie to the Koriki? Would they become automatic allies on emergence?

C) Another: What happens on contact between the Dekus, the Koriki with their Deku Tree, and the Gohma swarm? What about when one subjugates the other?
A) I'm not sure about cavalry yet, but I'm consdering having Zuna or some other creature from Ao L be their ranged unit.

B) In terms of the location it's pretty much how it was in Holondrum, but I took many creative liberties as far as the back story behind the ruins, it's builders, and it's purpose. A friend of mind seemed to make the connection that the Tarm Ruins were probably originally intended to be part of the Wind Tribe, which were originally going to be a race featured in the Mystical Seed of Courage before it was cancelled and reduced to just the two oracle games instead of three. The Wind Tribe ended up being pushed into Minish cap, whose architecture is almost exactly like that of the Tarm Ruins. To fill in this gap it seems they instead connected the Tarm Ruins to the Fairies responsible for the Temple of Seasons.

C) I'd imagine they'd probably be naturally hostile during first contact. I'll probably have it so some races are already aware of others at the start of the game though, particularly those that are labeled as rival factions of each other.
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
 67 Alucard, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 2:50:38 PM from Vancouver, BC Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Looking at the creator's commentary for the Lanayru faction, I absolutely can't fathom why they're needed. They look like Zora in human armor, nothing interesting or notable about them.
You're one to talk, Photon Shot

It's how you get by, Ghost Butterfly
 68 Kostya, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 2:58:09 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] He seems to think that the Zora of OOT and the ones from TP are different races. Thus the need to split them. Also I think he really likes the Zora so that could be a factor.

edit: The Zora race also seems to have the most named characters that are decently important. They have the King, Rutela, Ruto, Laruto, and Ralis. He seems to want only three hero units per side so rather than pick and choose he just split them into two groups.

So I just found out that this game can support up to 4x4 battles. When I get it I'm going to make:

Hylians+Ordonians+Gorons+Zoras vs. Gerudo+Moblins+Darknuts+Stalfos

It shall be epic!

edited 23rd Oct '11 3:00:02 PM by Kostya

[up]Is not as much as he "believes" but as much as he "felt". He knows the zoras from TP and from OoT are meant to be the same. He just thought they looked different enough to be separated (particularly the women head shape).

It also address the issue "Princess Ruto being attracted by Link", which is kinda nice.

 70 Kostya, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 3:36:13 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] Strange reason considering the difference in the Gorons.

Anyone I didn't know if he believed or not. His bio on the race claimed they were separate from regular Zoras so I assumed he actually thought that.

[up]What differences in the Gorons? They are mostly the same in all games since OoT. They are slightly different in TP in the have more rocky backs and nipples (and use loin cloth).

As for the zora the females changed drastically in head shape. They "all" (the two we see, at last) have a manta head in the N64 games, while they have dolphin heads in TP (and WW). Furthermore, TP zoras have more 'human like' faces, which is where Neph got the idea they are hybrids.

Sure, the differences is most probably just different art style (pretty much every creature/characer change in appearance between the games), but Nephs idea is an interesting one.

PS:[up][up][up]I made a similar 4x4 battle over here (replacing Gorons and Zoras by Sheikah and Lanaryu). My 'good' forces lost by a large margin. ^^;

edited 23rd Oct '11 3:57:12 PM by Heatth

 72 Kostya, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 4:02:13 PM from Everywhere
The Razruchityel
[up] They seem a lot bulkier and more violent in Twilight Princess.

It's certainly an interesting idea. I was just confused because I thought he really believed it.

Huh, shame. I would have thought the Sheikah would really help though. They sound like they're not exactly a full frontal assault army so having more groups to keep the enemies occupied would have increased their effectiveness in my mind.

How do multiple armies work? Is it you and computer allies vs. the computer or do you control up to 4 armies worth of soldiers?

They are more violent, sure. But I don't see them as 'bulkier'. Or, to be more specific, the everage TP goron is about the same shape as a OoT one (specially if you consider the official art). But even in the N64 there have been some out-of-norm heavier gorons (although the 'bigger gorons' from TP are heavier). Their changes are much more cosmedical then of the zoras (though I agree the male zoras from OoT are not that different from the TP).

I don't know if you can change so you control all of them, but I only controlled the Hilians. Be sure raise the starting ruppies, as it is divided by each faction (for me, each army ended up tiny). This may cause some lag, however, and I don't know if there is a unit limit per map.

Anyway, I lost mostly due to bad strategy, I believe. By accident, I deployed my units far to away from my alies. I also forgot to disable the 'spear wall' from my Princess Zelda, so I got a lot of time until regrouping (by then the Ordonias were mostly destroyed). I should try again some time.

Also, I don't know if the Sheikah are actually any good. They have very small sized units, which is hard to balance. I knwo the Darknuts, for example, are quite weak for that reason (although the lack of archery and cavalry hurt then even more).

PS:The races description of the mod are at last half Fan Fiction without basis on canon (just look the Kokiri!) and Neph is very well aware of it. Don't take it as "what the authors believes" but "what the author made it be". ;-)

edited 23rd Oct '11 4:21:40 PM by Heatth

 74 Colonial1. 1, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 4:45:46 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
Here's hoping the author comes up with good auxiliaries. I'd rather the Darknuts not be unusable.
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
 75 Colonial1. 1, Sun, 23rd Oct '11 10:08:06 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
Sorry for the double post, but can you lot think of any?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
Total posts: 148
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