Hyrule: Total War :

Total posts: [150]
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I don't think they could do that. It's difficult enough trying to figure out the canon, let alone timeline of the Zelda games, so making a history that would properly fit together would be impossible.

They did, though; it was all fan speculation, but it made a good deal of sense, and it was a lot more interesting, if darker, than the games are right now. I've got a link to the thread here.
27 Heatth21st Oct 2011 05:48:10 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up]UndyingNephalim doesn't seem much worried in following the game's chronology aside Broad Strokes. Well, to start it is not really much possible, as it starts before any game (aside The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, maybe), probably more or less around the Hyrulean Civil War and completely changes from there on (too keep the world more 'war like').

Even aside that, he is blatantly ignoring canon for a few bits of backstory. Most notably, he is using his personal input about Ganon and Ganondorf relationship (he believes they are more or less separated entities, with the former borning from the latter) and, even then, he is completely inverting what he believes to be the canon (making Ganondorf created by Ganon).

He is also clearly changing other things, like making the Lanayru Zoras (Zoras from Twilight Princess) different from the regular Zoras (Ocarina of Time) and having the Ikana Kingdom exist outside Termina.

So, yeah, don't expect much canon fidelity from this mod.

edited 21st Oct '11 5:48:34 PM by Heatth

Bleh, I wouldn't care about fidelity to the official canon if they make the in-game story an improvement on it.
29 MadassAlex21st Oct 2011 06:20:34 PM from the Middle Ages.
I am vexed!
Personally, I don't think this needs so many factions. I know Total War games tend to have very many, but Hyrule isn't history. I probably would've set it up like so:

  • The Kingdom of Hyrule
    • Few troop types, although each one is quite versatile. Has a good mixture of high-number troops (Hyrule soldiers) to strong elites (Hylian knights). With some tech, they can also excel at magical support.
  • The Forces of Darkness
    • Ganondorf and his minions. Includes a high variety of specialist troops and boasts strong magical offense. With the exception of some occult entities, this force tends to lack elites, although plenty of troop types have special attributes that make them a bit more troublesome than one might otherwise assume.
    • This force can be taken to include all kinds of undead, as well as warriors like Dinofos, Wolfos and other nasties. In addition, it includes the sort of units that would be Ganondorf's lieutenants, such as Gerudo faithfuls, renegade sorcerers and warriors seeking arcane augmentation.
  • The Gerudos
    • A high-mobility force with an emphasis on hit-and-run tactics due to their fragility. Otherwise, they deal good damage and can even come in numbers. They also have unique access to certain tools and treasures that are very context-specific, but powerful.

... and that's all you really need. Those would be the main powers vying for the throne post-Ocarina, with everyone else simply trying to defend their held territories. The only other force I could think to include is the Sheikah, although they could also be included as part of the Hyrule Kingdom faction. Much easier to balance this way.

30 Heatth21st Oct 2011 06:22:27 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up][up]I can't answered by that.tongue He has made a few Zelda related fan works before (where a few units from this game come from, in fact), though, so one can go an check his writing skills.

Personally, I like most of his changes so far. The Lanayru Zoras, for example, are an intersesting concept based on the Fridge Logic of the TP Zoras and the OoT Zoras looking different, as well as Princess Ruto willingness to 'marry' Link (the Lanayru Zoras are hybrids, you see).

I am not much found of his take on Ganon/Ganondorf, but this separation do have the gameplay purpose of keeping the Gerudo and Moblin faction separated (though it seems this changes root from before this game, so it is more like a happy coincidence).

Oh, well, only time will tell. Even if the story is crap, the opportunity of a massive Hyrulean war is awesome. And the mod is bound to have a 'vanilla' version, before the story scripted events be implemented.

edited 21st Oct '11 6:22:40 PM by Heatth

31 Kostya21st Oct 2011 06:22:38 PM from Everywhere , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
This game looks really fun.

How can I play it?
32 Heatth21st Oct 2011 06:33:50 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up][up][up]No Goron nor Zora? Why would you do that? They even took part of the canon Hyrule major war. And why the trouble of including the Gerudo if you are excluding all other major factions that have much more prominent role in the game (remember, the Gerudo just appear as a nation in two games, including a very minor one)?

At any rate, yeah, I guess some of the factions there are unneeded. Many (Gohma, Darknut Legion, Lizalfos, Stalfos, Lanaryu Privince and Faries of Tarn) have little basis on canon nations. And other are just too much of a stretch from the existent ones (Ordona Province and and Kokiris with their own military).

Still, I don't see how this hurt the game at any way. For a strategy game, multiple factions is important, not only for the sake of variety but also so that diplomacy and strategy have major role in the game. With just a handful factions, it boils down to just keep attacking your enemies.

[up]Buy Medieval II Total War and its expansion (very cheap on Steam). Then go here and download the demo mod. Keep in mind it is not complete yet. No campaign mode and no faction balance.
33 Tarsen21st Oct 2011 06:36:47 PM from FC: 2165-5763-7629 , Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
N0.64243 on ISIS twitter blockbot. no joke.
while i dont like spiders...at all,

i think a gohma faction is awesome.

a hyrule ruled by giant sentient man eating spiders is an awesome nightmare.

[up] im not sure he was referring to the civil war...

i mean, i dont think ganondorf would be leading the forces of evil during the civil war.

and i think goron and zora are included in the kingdom faction, whereas the gerudo are not, being exiles n all.

edited 21st Oct '11 6:39:57 PM by Tarsen

Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
34 Kostya21st Oct 2011 06:41:16 PM from Everywhere , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
[up][up] I'm guessing I need to use a credit card to buy that.

Damn, I don't have one or the money needed to get the game.
35 Heatth21st Oct 2011 06:53:10 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up][up]I guess, but why wouldn't take this war in account? It is kinda crazy, since it is pretty much the only canon major Hyrule war. There alone you can get at last 4 factions (Hyrule, Gorons, Zoras and Twili) for a perfect Total War set up scenario.

[up]How old are you, if you mind I asking. If the reason you can't use credit card is because you are minor, can't you just ask you parents. It is just 10$ the whole package. Even on Amazon you can buy it for that prince, right now, and it don't go up much more then 20$ in other on-line stores.

It is a quite old game, so it might be hard to find in an actual store, however.

edited 21st Oct '11 6:54:39 PM by Heatth

36 Kostya21st Oct 2011 07:05:09 PM from Everywhere , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
[up] My parents don't trust online companies enough to let me enter credit info and I don't have a card of my own.
37 Heatth21st Oct 2011 07:11:28 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Too bad. It might be hard to find a physical copy in an actual store, specially if you don't live in a large city.

Well, it is not like this mod is anywhere complete, anyway. I would give at last an year for the first fully playable version (with campaign and all). You can take your time looking to how buy this game.

Or, of course, you could just pirate it. Doing so for such a cheap game seems bad to me, though.
38 Colonial1.121st Oct 2011 07:54:12 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian
There is talk in the Mod thread of having the Twili faction split in two. Thoughts on that?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
39 Heatth21st Oct 2011 07:56:13 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
I would support that, myself. It make sense. (and Ordona, of all things, is split from Hyrule, anyway). Might be hard to come with enough units for the 'good' faction, however.
40 Heatth22nd Oct 2011 01:22:17 AM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Hey, look, a work page. It wasn't there yesterday.
41 Colonial1.122nd Oct 2011 12:50:56 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian

Wait... What's all this about Majora?

The Word of God speaks. The first section is composed of my questions, and the second is from Nephalim.

Ah, very good. Well then, A) are all those unit descriptors of yours compiled in one place so that I don't have to hunt for them?

B) What's this I hear about Majora in this modification?

C) Are there scripted events for what happens if certain characters meet (i.e. Zelda meets Ganondorf, Veran meets Onox, Midna gets Link to join her band, etc.)? These could probably go all over the emotional scale with what happens in them.

D) Is Midna outside these events, looking in, thus explaining first her role as narrator, then, going by the trailer, a hero coming in to set it all to rights?

E) How big do you plan on making citadels and other castles once they're debugged a fair amount?

A) Several people have requested I compile the descriptions in one place and I've been putting them into a text file. I'll upload it once I manage to finish that.

B) Majora's going to be one of the main antagonists. Other then that he's largely under wraps much like Link at the moment.

C) I'll likely have scripted events if I can pull them off in the engine (It could probably easily be done by just having a cinematic pop up when the event is triggered rather then in-game cinematics).

D) This is pretty much spot on.

E) Each race will have their own styles of cities and castles. Generally each race will have a large central castle or fortress surrounded by smaller cities.

edited 22nd Oct '11 3:21:25 PM by Colonial1.1

Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
I can't be the only one wishing that Nintendo would make an official version of this...
43 Colonial1.122nd Oct 2011 04:26:23 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian
I'll continue questioning him and posting the responses, if you lot so wish.
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
44 Heatth22nd Oct 2011 04:27:53 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up][up]You are not.

[up][up][up]Cool. But where did you get this from?

[up]Feel free.

edited 22nd Oct '11 4:28:30 PM by Heatth

45 Colonial1.122nd Oct 2011 04:38:38 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian
From P Ms exchanged with him.
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
46 Kostya22nd Oct 2011 05:26:09 PM from Everywhere , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
[up] Could you ask him what inspired him to use these armies? I mean certain ones like the Hylians, Gerudo, Zora, etc. are no brainers. But how did he come up with the Gohma, Ordonians, and Stalfos?

How come Holodrum doesn't have a faction representing it?

Does Vaati factor into the story at all? What about guys like Malladus and Agahnim?

tropetown: Trust me, I want that too! It would have to be rather unrelated to the other games but I would definitely like something like this.

edited 22nd Oct '11 5:26:54 PM by Kostya

47 Heatth22nd Oct 2011 05:34:39 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
[up]I know the answer for some these questions, from reading this thread:

Gohma are there because they are Neph's favorite enemies, essentially. They also apparently feature quite a bit in his previous fanworks.

Holodrum don't have faction because they don't have standing army in the game, unlike Labrynna. (then again, neither has Ordona)

Vaati is already planned to appear as a mercenary unit.

Agahnin is already in. He is one of the Sheikah leaders. If you wonder why he is a Sheikah in this mod, take a peek in his official art (yeah, the symbol lacks an tear, but in the games it is mentioned the tear is a recent addition to the Sheikah emblem).

Incidentally, you can look at all models already done here. It gets updated any time he "finish" a faction (that is it, finish their bare bones).

PS:An official Zelda war game don't need to be unrelated to the other games. Remember, there is a major war in Hyrule backstory. I don't believe it will ever happen, though.

edited 22nd Oct '11 5:46:59 PM by Heatth

48 Colonial1.122nd Oct 2011 05:51:34 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian
Malladus ain't going in because he loathes Spirit Tracks, essentially.

Here's another exchange.

Ahh, thank you. Very interesting indeed. Next set of questions:

A) Since the Darknuts seemingly have a partly Greco-Roman cultural basis, would it not be logical for them to bring in auxiliaries from other races/tribes to fill their deficiencies (and actually be able to bring their terrifying strength to bear in-game)?

B) This is from a colleague, related to the Ikana/Twili: Will they be triggered using the "Rebellion" mechanic in critial areas? Ikana in the Stone Tower or some element of the Termina verse either parallel to Hyrule or that shouldn't be in Hyrule and the Twili either by the discovery of a mirror or a similarly parallel/misplaced location creating a pseudo Mongols event?

C) Also from him: Will there be anything alluding to how the Darknuts are most related to a flooded Hyrule of WW as opposed to the TP canon?

D) Also also: Is there a reason [this mod] is not more super-imposed over a traditional map of Hyrule?

E) Will all factions have naval units? Expanding on that, do you plan on expanding the map so that those can actually have a reason to be used?

A) The Darknuts will have access to mercs that make up their deficiencies.

B) Both Ikana and the Twili will be indeed be factions spawned by events.

C) I personally just always pictured the Darknuts as jackal-like ever since WW, even in TP. Their helms in TP actually have quite an elongated snout.

D) The map is actually based largely on Oo T and TP, it's just expanded to accommodate so many races and to portray the vast battlefields.

E) I have no real plans for naval units at the moment.

Any other questions you lot want to ask? Thoughts on this?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
49 Kostya22nd Oct 2011 06:26:16 PM from Everywhere , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
In one of his commentaries he refers to how Zelda's become too much of a cartoon. What exactly does he mean?

edit: I'd like you to tell him it's an awesome idea, even if I don't agree with him about ST and probably a bunch of other stuff.

edited 22nd Oct '11 6:27:07 PM by Kostya

50 Colonial1.122nd Oct 2011 06:36:54 PM from The Marvelous River City , Relationship Status: In season
Crazed Lawrencian
More questions about the game mod itself would be advisable. While I will ask him your question, it is a bit contentious.

So, ask away.

Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?

Total posts: 150
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