Something must be done: Accidental Innuendo

Deadlock Clock: 12th Dec 2012 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [140]
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[up] I can agree to that.
127 ccoa6th May 2012 06:18:51 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Calling crowner to split into subtropes and move examples to subtropes.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
128 AlexSora8922nd May 2012 08:21:02 AM from Piedmont, Italy
Myself, as drawn by me.
Good thing I noticed this. Saving the article before it gets axed.
I'm from Piedmont. No relation with Piedmon, mind you!
A girl and her demon cat
Apologies if this sort of bump is unwanted, but something still needs to be done about the mess that is Innuendo Tropes.

This post has a good breakdown of the tropes in question, but I'd like to add my own analysis.

The first group of tropes is mainly about spoken innuendos delivered by a character. It's broken down roughly by who intended the innuendo and to what degree it is intended to be understood.
  • Double Entendre: Intended by the author, and by the character. Not necessarily intended to be immediately understood by everyone in the audience, but always intended to be understood in at least its nonsexual meaning. Whether the characters understand the innuendo is irrelevant.
    • Lampshaded Double Entendre: As above, but the additional remark makes sure the innuendo is understood by the audience (and generally the characters).
  • Innocent Innuendo: Intended by the author, but not by the character making the innuendo. However, to be this trope, it must mislead either the audience or another character. Note that while the description states it covers scenes where only another character, not the audience, is misled, such examples seem to wind up in Accidental Innuendo instead.
  • That Came Out Wrong: Intended by the author. Not intended by the character. Understood by the audience, and by the speaker or other characters. This trope seems problematic to me, because it seems to overlap with the in-universe version of Innocent Innuendo. In addition, the title and examples make it seem like it's trying to be about the flustered reaction, but the description doesn't really reflect that. The description states it's "different from Innocent Innuendo in that the audience isn't misled", but according to Innocent Innuendo, that trope doesn't require the audience to be misled—only another character.
  • Accidental Innuendo: Unintended by the author. Note that this, as the description is written, is not a trope, but as mentioned above, it tends to gather examples intended by the author, of one character innocently saying something and another character construing it as dirty.
  • Heh Heh, You Said "X": The author expects the audience to understand that there is no real innuendo, but it is taken as innuendo by an immature character. Note that this has a Real Life section which is virtually indistinguishable from the Accidental Innuendo Real Life section.

The second group of tropes is mainly about visual innuendo, and are gathered under the supertrope Visual Innuendo. These tropes seem pretty solidly defined and don't seem as problematic as the above group, so I'm not going to go into detail about them.

The odd two out are Freudian Slippery Slope and Or Are You Just Happy to See Me?. The former isn't really about innuendo—it's about blurting out things that are clearly sexual (no innuendo involved) but unintentionally. The latter is a Stock Phrase, and doesn't seem problematic.

So it seems to me like our main problems are:
  • There is a category of examples, namely, instances in which one character says something that misleads another character, but the audience isn't misled.
  • Accidental Innuendo is written in a way that isn't a trope, but is often used instead to describe the above category.
  • Innocent Innuendo is written to include that category, but in practice it's used only for situations in which the audience is misled.
  • That Came Out Wrong is pretending to be an innuendo trope, when it's really about a character's reaction.

So my solution would be to make Accidental Innuendo about one character misleading another character (possibly with a rename), more tightly define Innocent Innuendo to be about fooling the audience, and clarify the definition of That Came Out Wrong to square with the examples. The stuff that's just 'The author didn't mean this to be dirty, but it sounds that way to me' can be jettisoned, in my opinion. It's creepy, subjective, and not a trope.

edited 6th Jun '12 10:06:58 AM by Silverfire

Sometimes seen with a "526" after my name.
A girl and her demon cat
I realize in my post above I kind of conflated the situations of "the person hearing the innuendo is led to believe something contrary to reality" and "the person hearing the innuendo realizes it's an innuendo, and is accordingly amused/scandalized/whatever." That distinction seems to be made in some trope definitions, but not in others.
Sometimes seen with a "526" after my name.
131 HersheleOstropoler22nd Jun 2012 09:44:04 AM from BK.NY.US , Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
Here's how I understand the spoken innuendo/double entendre group:
 Intended by authorIntended by characterRecognized by other charactersRecognized by audiencenotes
Double EntendreYesYesMaybeMaybeThe supertrope
Lampshaded Double EntendreYesYesYes, because pointed outYes, because pointed outA direct subtrope
Innocent InnuendoYesNoYes, or irrelevantYesSeems to cover two different tropes, depending on whether other characters recognize the innuendo
Accidental InnuendoNoPerforce, noNoYesThis is based on the current (July 5) description
That Came Out WrongYesNoMaybeMaybe
Heh Heh, You Said "X"MaybeNoWhen intended by authorYesThe innuendo may not even exist, a la The Todd

edited 5th Jul '12 5:28:18 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the manOedipus
Seeking for Light
[up] You forgot Accidental Innuendo in that table.

edited 22nd Jun '12 10:16:24 AM by Nocturna

A girl and her demon cat
Shoot. Does This Remind You of Anything? probably needs to be taken into consideration as well, as it seems to be a not-necessarily-sexual supertrope of Innocent Innuendo, except that most of the examples are, in fact, sexual.
Sometimes seen with a "526" after my name.
134 HersheleOstropoler5th Jul 2012 05:26:59 PM from BK.NY.US , Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
@Nocturna: Added it
The child is father to the manOedipus
135 TropeEater21st Jul 2012 01:14:59 PM from the depths of Hell
That One Troper
What about Un-Entendre?
   Evil is my favorite color.   
136 ccoa17th Sep 2012 08:02:23 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Any progress here?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
137 lu1279th Dec 2012 09:28:54 AM from 空蝉丸
138 nrjxll9th Dec 2012 02:33:09 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
Should this be moved to Special Efforts?
139 SeptimusHeap9th Dec 2012 03:37:50 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Maaaybe. Personally, I'd like to have a combined thread for Innuendo Tropes and Getting Crap Past the Radar.
140 lu1277th Jan 2013 11:52:22 AM from 空蝉丸
Doesn't look like there's much interest here.
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Page Action: Accidental Innuendo
25th Apr '12 6:56:17 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
"Accidental Innuendo" currently lists fictional exchanges that may sound sexual to viewers though they were not meant as such. As a result, it has devolved into a Just For Fun-style compilation.

Total posts: 140
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