Series/Firefly

Ever see the alternate opening sequence, which is essentially just Mal and Zoe after the battle's over, walking the battlfield? Includes the memorable line "God? Whose colors is He flying?" which speaks to the current state of Mal's faith.

I'd think that would be even more confusing. But it does sound cool.

Link?

Also, dropped Ambassador joke? I gather there were restrictions to what Inara would or wouldn't be allowed to do or be implied to do — I think this leads to a certain tension the show has with the character, which is in turn embraced — but she does act in an ambassadorial or quasi ambassadorial position in Shindig, Jaynestown and War Stories.

I think I need to rewatch the series.

"Serenity" makes it pretty clear that Mal calls her "Ambassador" all the time. And then it never comes up again. It'd be one thing if that dropped off as they got closer, but...

Serenity has a lot of weird things that don't carry over to the rest of the series. There's everyone (not just Mal, as I recall it) calling Inara "ambassador" as some kind of euphemism, parts of Kaylee and Wash's personalities, and I'm sure other stuff I'm forgetting.

Actually... being a bit weird with continuity is true for both Serenities.

Mal doesn't have the lighter side to him that Fillion got permission to give him afterward.

Fox apparently insisted that Mal be "jollier," whereas Whedon originally wanted him to be pretty grim at first (he lost everything he believed in, remember, when the Browncoats lost the war) and then gradually become a bit lighter. For the film, Whedon has said he wanted to give Mal an emotional arc, in that he starts out grim and closed off but becomes more active, optimistic, and idealistic as it goes on. And he starts embracing his "family" more; at the start of the film, he's lost Inara and Book, and he comes close to pushing away Simon and River; I imagine, if something hadn't changed, he would have eventually pushed away his entire crew.

I'm not sure how restrictive Fox was on showing what Inara did; in Jaynestown the show her servicing a female client, after all (nothing wrong with that, of course, but if anything would trigger Executive Meddling, that'd be it). She's essentially a courtesan/geisha, and that's pretty much what she does.

Fillion also wanted to play character that was closer to his sense of humor, as he'd be stuck inside that character for the duration.

x2 I mean, they make it pretty explicit with Mal calling her a whore all the time, and in Jaynestown she's explicitly hired to make some guy "a man" (the female client thing was a different episode, I'm fairly certain.)

War Stories, yes.

Yes, War Stories, not Jaynestown. Sorry.

And in the pilot (which, ok, they aired last) they out and out show her in bed with a customer, with him on top of her and grunting and such. Pretty explicit, that.

edited 25th Feb '13 4:18:43 PM by Robbery

As a Chinese person, I have no issue with the casting decisions for the main cast. However, the lack of Asian faces in the general background is notable, particularly with the prevalence of Chinese pidgin being used.

I'd be better with it if the Chinese influence on the culture weren't so heavy. It feels more like an insult — like "we can take your language and culture, but who cares about the people"?

As you point out, though, the lack in even extras or supporting roles sort of make me think something bigger was at play (bigger meaning above Joss's head — even then, the implied insult in the Author's Saving Throw mentioned on the works page makes me wonder a little still).

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy it either. Though the Tams being (distantly) descended from Chinese stock is believable. Inara also looks to have a pretty cosmopolitan heritage.

That being said, maybe the cultural appropriation is just another sign of the decay of Alliance society?

Adam Baldwin's Mandarin was the best of the lot. Which is amusing, because he didn't use it as much as the others.

Hmm, if the story at this link is accurate, Joss really didn't care about casting Asians in his Asian-infused universe.

That's really disappointing. As is the claim in the comments that he's said in the past that Summer Glau "looks kind of Asian," so that makes everything okay.

edited 4th Mar '13 2:06:12 PM by Leaper

Daniel Dae Kim kept saying, when she guested on Hawaii Five-0, that her name is Summer G. Lau... So, she must be asian.

edited 4th Mar '13 3:59:24 PM by Swish

Hah! Cute.

Though it occurs to me how sad the story I posted earlier is, specifically how carefully and subtly the writer had to put the question. The way I read it, he wasn't nearly as concerned about how Joss would take it as the hundreds of fellow fans who were present. I can easily imagine that if he'd done anything a little different, he probably wouldn't not only gotten boos, but probably a racial epithet or two, and that's what saddens me.

No wonder so few people acknowledge or discuss this issue (in a general sense as well as in this specific case).

It's actually not that important. There's nothing wrong with Whedon's answer; getting good actors who fill the roles assigned to them is a higher priority than making sure you find a place for every possible minority, and the author of that article kind of flipped out over the fact that Whedon basically said just that.

Like I keep saying, and as the article and comments (IIRC) say, that would be fine, if Whedon hadn't gone ahead and based his universe on Chinese culture and then just threw up his hands and decided that having actual Asian people in it in important roles was just too hard. Like a Chinese world is only acceptable as long as it's seen through the eyes of a bunch of white people.

Now, that kind of shit has been going on for decades, and it's too much to expect for any one person to break it apart. I also understand the sad truth that if the cast HAD had a lot more Asian actors in it, it may not have been nearly as remembered as it is today (at least, I'm sure that's what the suits say). But Whedon did this to himself with his writing decisions, so it's hard for me to feel much understanding or any pity.

edited 6th Mar '13 3:51:42 PM by Leaper

Neither your understanding nor your pity is necessary. Whedon couldn't give two shits about what you think. Harsh, but true. You are a faceless voice on the internet, and Joss Whedon is an immensely successful writer and director. He won't be losing any sleep over the fact that he can't have your "pity".

It's a matter of perspective. If I'm an Asian-American who wishes to see more successful Asian-American characters in Hollywood, then yes, I will get up in arms over the fact that there are no Asians in any of the shows I like. But if I'm a director who is not an Asian-American, has no stake in Asian-American race relations, and is instead tasked with the sole responsibility of making a successful television show, given a casting choice between a halfway-decent Asian actor and an amazing Caucasian actor, I'm sorry, white guy wins because if he is a better actor than the Asian is, then my job is to pick the good actor, regardless of how this plays into anyone's minority cause.

The fact of it is, it's only about race to you. Joss Whedon isn't a champion of your cause. He is a man doing a job, and expecting him to bend over backwards for your cause is ridiculous. So, no, Joss doesn't care. This isn't because he's callous and hates non-white people. It's because he is a man performing a job for which he was hired.

edited 6th Mar '13 5:00:27 PM by TobiasDrake

Actually, Whedon DIDN'T base his universe on Chinese culture. He based it on a blend of Chinese and American cultures (because he figured that those two cultures, being pretty much the two super-powers today, would eventually stop looking askance at each other and growling and merge; he's actually said he thinks that's a positive thing, if in practice likely to be incredibly inefficient and ungainly, as the Alliance is depicted). The degree of the blend depended on where the characters were from, and all of Whedon's characters except Inara came from planets (or ships, in Zoe's case) whose cultures were more strongly influenced by America, or at least the Western world.

I suppose the relative failure of Serenity killed the franchise's chance of ever coming back on television on a non-shitty (i.e. non /spit Fox) network?

I can't imagine the show ever coming back on television, unfortunately.

All of the characters are more influenced by western cultures?

We have no idea where Shepard Book hails from... And the flashbacks to the lives/parents of the Tams shows they probably did get a greater influence from the Chinese culture than a western culture...

I don't necessarily agree with the examples Swish suggests, but Inara categorically comes from the Asian "half" of the setting. The Companion subculture's from that part of the galaxy, she grew up on the Asian capital planet (I think it was the capital, anyway, there are two capital planets and the other's Western) and she's Indian to boot. She might not be Korean or Chinese, but Whedon's clearly implicitly conflating various Eastern and Middle Eastern groups together, just as he mixes Jewish, Irish and British ancestry in the other group.

Future India/Sri Lanka/wherever speaks Chinese/English, clearly.

edited 7th Mar '13 12:06:41 AM by Nicknacks