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USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#51: Oct 12th 2011 at 4:04:29 PM

...but stupid shit like eugenics is born from ableism as much as it is from racism...

I am now known as Flyboy.
SomeSortOfTroper Since: Jan, 2001
#52: Oct 12th 2011 at 4:16:11 PM

Barkey's legally blind in one eye, IIRC.

mahel042 State-sponsored username from Stockholm,Sweden Since: Dec, 2009
State-sponsored username
#53: Oct 12th 2011 at 4:17:46 PM

Yeah, but IIRC the military doesn't know and he passed the tests.

edited 12th Oct '11 4:18:41 PM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?
Newfable Since: Feb, 2011
#54: Oct 12th 2011 at 4:32:31 PM

But, I don't think anybody really answered my question in a satisfactory manner. Is it, or is it not, offensive to view disabled people as people that need something fixed? As in, that's it. You don't think they're pieces of crap, or they're subhuman or whatever. You just think "This man can't walk, if I could, I would invent a technology to allow him to walk".
That's not offensive at all; "normal" people do that to themselves all the time. See a problem? Find a way to fix it, if it needs fixing.

Say someone can't walk. You develop technology that allows them to walk. After that, you just offer them the choice and opportunity to use said technology if they want to *

.

Hell, we see this kind of thing already, with cochlear implants for the deaf. The technology is there, and it is a solution, and it's also not the only solution. Deaf people always (or should always) have the option to use it, but know they don't have to to be "accepted" into society as "normal". Sadly, the idea of this kind of technology doesn't do much within the deaf community itself, which is kind of split about the issue.

feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#55: Oct 12th 2011 at 9:25:28 PM

I find it interesting that Ailedhoo's post compared autism to deafness. Autism is associated (at least in popular culture) with a distinctive mental state, to the point that those who propose "curing autism" often talk in terms of eradicating that mental state and making autistic people think like other people. But autism is not the only way to develop that mental state—my thought processes are very much like those of autistic narrators in fiction, but I have never been diagnosed with any mental abnormality. On the other hand, autism is also associated with social difficulties, and I do believe that high-functioning autistics have the obligation to learn how to get along in social settings consisting primarily of non-autistics (I won't say "neurotypicals," since they'll also need to get along with people whose abnormalities aren't rooted in autism.)

Applying this to the concept of "Deaf culture," I don't think gaining a sense of hearing necessarily means losing whatever self you associate with being deaf. And let's face it—if your friends in the culture reject you for undergoing cochlear surgery, they were never really your friends anyways.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
fanty Since: Dec, 2009
#56: Oct 13th 2011 at 12:13:39 AM

Deaf people who don't want cochlear implants really baffle me. I myself, though, have no sense of smell. If, suddenly, some cure appeared out of the blue, I wouldn't care much for it. When you've spent your whole life not being able to smell anything, the idea of suddenly being able to do it seems kinda scary and alien. I'd be willing to undergo a treatment to fix my lack of sense of smell only if I had the guarantee that there'd be a way to un-fix it if it turned out that I don't like smelling things.

feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#57: Oct 13th 2011 at 12:18:13 AM

^ Having had it demonstrated to me that I can't taste the difference between an apple and an onion if my nose is plugged, I can assure you that it would definitely be worth it. True, I hate onions, but apples are worth it.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#58: Oct 13th 2011 at 12:24:32 AM

[up][up]A lot of people can be nervous about surgery, especially when it's stuff around the head.

There's also something I just picked up from The Other Wiki, which is that in people who have been deaf for long periods, their brains start to use the region devoted to hearing for other things, and thus become biologically unable to deal well with the restoration of hearing.

It's why cochlea implants are most recommended for very young children, or those who have recently become deaf.

edited 13th Oct '11 12:24:58 AM by Drakyndra

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Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#59: Oct 13th 2011 at 12:57:58 AM

I don't have a problem with "disabilities" I might stare, but not because I find them monstrous, because I find them interesting I realize this is perhaps not a huge improvement. I just find difference to be very invigorating.

edited 13th Oct '11 12:59:01 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
rankers Since: Dec, 1969
#60: Oct 13th 2011 at 1:41:20 AM

The whole 'fixing' thing is interesting and actually quite complex.

Would I want my situation to improve? Would I like my life to be easier? Well, yes, of course, who wouldn't and if some new surgery came on to the market or some new cyber-doodah then i'd have to seriously consider it.

Bu being disabled is more than that. I've had Spina Bifida since birth so this is it, this is what I know, what I've always known. My entire life has been shaped by my disability because it's part of who I am and dealing with it and the dificulties the world throws at you because of it is now part of my identity. If I'd been struck down in an accident after x number of years playing footy in the park that might be a different matter but any magic cure would be something that i would have to think about. I'm not saying i wouldn't go for it mind, just that it wouldn't be an automatic hell yesh! And of course this is just me. Others might feel differently

mahel042 State-sponsored username from Stockholm,Sweden Since: Dec, 2009
State-sponsored username
#61: Oct 13th 2011 at 1:42:05 AM

I don't stare at disabled people, either because they are nothing special or if it's something that affects the face I don't want to see it*

. Otherwise I treat them just like everyone else, meaning I help them if they ask for it and hold up doors if I'm passing trough it anyway.

And if I had a disability and it could be fixed I would do it even if just for the experience, but that may just be my curiosity speaking.

edited 13th Oct '11 1:47:25 AM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#62: Oct 13th 2011 at 1:46:02 AM

o_o if I had some congenital disorder like spina bifida I think I'd be beating people out of line with an umbrella or something to get there as fast as possible.

I'd like the wires that tell my body what to do to not be exposed/in more danger than necessary. It's not about wanting to be normal, it's about not wanting to have a weak point that can easily be attacked for massive damage.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
rankers Since: Dec, 1969
#63: Oct 13th 2011 at 3:37:15 AM

[up]

Yeah those wiresa are tucked up and hidden away thanks to the surgery i had on the day i was born so there's no danger there. My condition won't get worse which I think is actually a big thing here. If it was gettign worse then i thin kthe whole decision becomes a different one.

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#64: Oct 13th 2011 at 8:23:02 AM

Well I've regularly viewed the cures/treatment as for the next generation rather than people who have already established a life without a certain ability. Afterall, if a guy was born not being able to walk, it's not like he would care to think much about how it would be like to walk. It'd be similar to asking a normal person does he miss flying.

edited 13th Oct '11 8:23:21 AM by breadloaf

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#65: Sep 13th 2013 at 7:27:27 PM

I've got chronic fatigue syndrome. If you think having a wheel chair is... an interesting experience, try having something invisible. tongue

The number of times I've been told to my face I'm lying just to pull a sickie for kicks or to get out of something, or that dizzy-sick is just me being pathetic and I should just woman up when I'm close to collapse... -_- Worse, if you tell some people, they start treating you as if your IQ suddenly dropped 40 points or they think you're six. <_<

My cousin has spina bifida, strangely enough. He's spent most of his life being told to his face he'd die soon, so nothing he could do really mattered. And, in a few cases, having hospital nursing staff try to hasten the process on with "accidental" neglect during surgeries as a kid. To "ease the poor thing out of his misery quicker, so it'd be better for everyone". Like hell: he was not of that opinion, thanks for asking — yes, surgery sucks, but not that much. tongue

If members of the family hadn't caught it in time, he would have been dead.

The range of attitudes you can find when you're disabled are wide. But, rarely that pretty, I'm afraid. sad Some of you have expressed some of the lower-tier ones, already, in this thread. <prods a few consciences> Just because I can't do a few things doesn't make me a waste of space.

edited 13th Sep '13 7:29:12 PM by Euodiachloris

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#66: Sep 13th 2013 at 8:06:52 PM

My cousin has spina bifida, strangely enough. He's spent most of his life being told to his face he'd die soon, so nothing he could do really mattered. And, in a few cases, having hospital nursing staff try to hasten the process on with "accidental" neglect during surgeries as a kid. To "ease the poor thing out of his misery quicker, so it'd be better for everyone". Like hell: he was not of that opinion, thanks for asking — yes, surgery sucks, but not that much. tongue

If members of the family hadn't caught it in time, he would have been dead.

That's quite a statement to make Euodiachloris. Is that a direct quote or paraphrasing?

hashtagsarestupid
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#67: Sep 13th 2013 at 8:23:17 PM

[up]As this was more than 30 years ago, the direct quote may have changed slightly. But, the nurse had the gall to tell my mother this right to her face. And, got a surprise when she pulled her psychiatric credentials and got the stupid bint fired for unethical practice.

So, no: not embroidered by much.

edited 13th Sep '13 8:26:41 PM by Euodiachloris

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#68: Sep 13th 2013 at 8:37:00 PM

I see. Your mother certainly made the right call there didn't she?

hashtagsarestupid
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#69: Sep 13th 2013 at 8:49:54 PM

When faced with unethical practice, you use the system. And, use every string you can tug to head the attempt to discredit the complaint off at the pass. <_<

edited 13th Sep '13 8:51:18 PM by Euodiachloris

SmytheOrdo Wide Eyed Wonderman from In The Mountains Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Wide Eyed Wonderman
#70: Sep 13th 2013 at 9:01:30 PM

Why do so many on the net think it's an acceptable thing to use "autism" as a synonym for utter stupidity. It's not fucking one bit funny and it makes me physically angry.

David Bowie 1947-2016
Ringsea He Who Got Gud from Fly-Over Country,USA Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
He Who Got Gud
#71: Sep 13th 2013 at 10:31:11 PM

[up]Same reaso people use "gay" or "fag" for bad. Ignorance. People are ignorant mental and physical disorders in the same way.

The most edgy person on the Internet.
Medinoc Chaotic Greedy from France Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chaotic Greedy
#72: Sep 14th 2013 at 2:19:30 AM

I've only ever seen autism used as an insult once, in a MMORPG that was infested by what people called "autistic player killers".

edited 14th Sep '13 2:19:44 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Talby Since: Jun, 2009
#73: Sep 14th 2013 at 5:33:07 AM

Re: the autism thing, as bad as it is to use it as an insult, this is nothing new. The words stupid, moron, idiot, dumb, etc. are all originally medical terms that fell out of use when they started being used as pejoratives.

CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#74: Sep 14th 2013 at 5:39:43 AM

Not all people with Asperger's or autism are stupid, but during therapy I had "pleasure" to meet the cases which were utterly moronic and obnoxious. I don't label myself at the same level as them. I'm an example of guy with Asperger's that can fit the society and be successful.

My President is Funny Valentine.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#75: Sep 14th 2013 at 6:06:52 AM

[up][up]

Yes, the "Euphemism Treadmill". The thing is, whatever word or phrase you use, it will be used in a derogatory manner by someone.

Keep Rolling On

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