I changed accounts.
I wonder how many were actually illegal...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Does it matter?
Either way, a law like that in a place like Alabama practically says in big fucking letter "we hate you mexicans. go the fuck back to mexico "
Its also gonna have interesting effects on the economy in places where lots of factories employ immigrant famnilies.
Incidentally, I'd wager a lot of their parents are illegals. But thats mostly because getting a legal permit to enter the US is practically impossible.
edited 1st Oct '11 10:00:24 AM by Midgetsnowman
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Just because a lot of people want illegal immigration under control doesn't mean they all are racist.Sure some may have wrong reasons for being against illegal immigration but its sorta of a Jerkass Has a Point because mainly the government has been letting illegals slip in.And okay thats why laws should be made to have legal permits be easier to get.
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
The US has a problem with illegal immigration only because immigrating legally is nigh-impossible.
Suggesting to actively enforce the xenophobic shit we have in place now is unacceptable.
edited 1st Oct '11 10:39:19 AM by SavageHeathen
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
To give you an idea why our laws dont work. To get in legally, you need a work visa. These are perfectly available. Except..theres a very small amount of them allowed t5o be issued per year (an amount most economists and other experts say is far below what it should be), and about twenty times more people wanting to live here than there are visas.
what are they supposed to do? their only choices are "live in continued abject poverty for shitty wages in a country ran by corporate and drug lord interests" or "sneak across a border, brave a desertm, and enter a land where even minimum wage is double their average salary back home"
Heathen@Not really nigh impossible but could be made easier.I am just saying that there is some real problems that states with large,illegal populations.Also I heard a lot of Hispanic legal immigrants are usually glossed over when it comes to jobs in favor of illegals.I heard it from my older adopted brother who was looking for a job but couln't find any.
"The economic and social consequences of illegal immigration... are staggering... Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services... Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost... $60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S... This is a massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - to Mexico."
Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform (CAIR) "Economic Costs of Legal and Illegal Immigration," cairco.org accessed Oct. 24, 2007
edited 1st Oct '11 10:55:13 AM by joyflower
scratching at .8, just hopin'
Making legal permits easier to get is just not a political sell in many areas of the Deep South. Sad but true.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
I changed accounts.
The South just sees a large group of foreign nationals taking jobs and not paying taxes, I imagine...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Chaotic Greedy
The school part reminds me of some policy in France under a particularly harsh minister of immigration, where families stopped sending their children to school because there were cops waiting for illegally immigrated fathers to come pick them up and arrest them.
Needless to say, this caused a massive outrage.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
I changed accounts.
...but they're committing a crime. That makes sense, to do that...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Hmm, illegal immigrants not going to school because of a law designed to deal with illegals? Color me not surprised.
Gristknife
Yes, the legislators hadn't the slightest clue what would happen in response to this law, I'm positively sure of that! I mean, they're only gathering information! Information that wouldn't be used for much of anything! Right?
What does a student's immigration status have to do with anything? As long as they are registered in the right school district I can see no reason why a student should be turned away or considered differently.
Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
This is going to bite Alabama in their butt, and HARD. I'm predicting a steep decline in their economy, starting yesterday.
I changed accounts.
Joe, their immigration status has everything to do with the fact that they're using public resources...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Gristknife
Yes, but many of them will be US citizens with illegal parents. Why should their rights be impinged for their parent's wrong doings?
If you cut them off from a free public education you pretty much ensure that they'll become criminals if they're not deported in time.
Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
I changed accounts.
Their parents are still committing a crime. If they want to use the public resources, they can become citizens or get a visa.
I am now known as Flyboy.
It's not exactly their fault their parents wanted to make a better life for themselves and not wait one decade plus to do so.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
I think the families of these students are worried that they'll end up deported regardless of immigration status. Similar to how the pre-civil war "Fugitive Slave Law" was occasionally used to seize legally free African-Americans. The people enforcing Immigration might "ignore" citizenship and deport Hispanics anyway, or at least that's what some people may fear happening. Given that this is in the South, it wouldn't surprise me.
Byte Me
I think that the best reform option is to guarantee that any smart people from Mexico stay in this country. If you can get a degree from a university in the United States, lets make the path to citizenship wicked easy. Same thing for college-bound highschoolers who happen to discover that they are illegal only as they are filling out their application forms. We WANT those guys to stick around, don't we?
As for temporary work visas, those should be more readily available as well. The only reason they aren't is because of the corporate lobby not wanting to reveal to the world the depths of their practically slave labor practices, and to have to pay taxes on visa workers.
^Don't forget the pregnant mothers who were taken away from the fathers during labor, and restrained with handcuffs to a hospital bed in Arizona. 38 out of 50 states have dubbed it illegal to restrain a pregnant woman during labor, because it is excessively cruel, but its okay to do this in Arizona to illegal immigrants because hey, they aren't entitled to basic human dignity under Arizona law.
edited 1st Oct '11 12:14:18 PM by MyGodItsFullofStars
I changed accounts.
I would put anyone who did such a thing to abuse this law on a pike.
Either way, I would argue that this law is unconstitutional for the same reason Arizona's laws were: invasion of privacy and a lack of probable cause grounds and due process.
I am now known as Flyboy.
Gristknife
Except they can't.
If it were easy to do those things, why would there be so many illegals? The naturalization process is so long and convoluted it's the specialty of many lawyers and is surprisingly lucrative. If you've ever dealt with American bureaucracy you know what a pain it is to some degree, but add on top of it you could be deported at any time and prolong the combination of fear and frustration out over a decade. And than in the end it all comes down to a coin flip, and even if it turns out your way you may never be able to visit your native land again.
And it doesn't matter if my parents were bank robbers and murderers, there's no reason why I should be denied my education. A Citizen gets what they're entitled to, they need to commit a crime themselves to lose any privileges or protections.
I think states should be able to grant work visas, so if Alabama wants to shoot itself in the foot, let some other state allow those people to make themselves useful.
Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
I changed accounts.
As the son of a naturalized citizen, I will say with some degree of certainty that "it's hard to do" is not an excuse to ignore an enforced law, and especially not to complain that you get shit for doing it.
Immigration law needs reform, but they cannot just ignore it in the meantime.
I am now known as Flyboy.
Well they can and they do. That happens when a law becomes impossible to enforce/completely silly. Police eventually just stop enforcing it. A good example is pot in Canada. Cops don't even bother busting most people caught smoking pot, as long they're not breaking another law at the same time.
In the same vein, most people don't bother reporting illegals as long as they aren't criminals.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Immigration law is bs and the illegal immigrants aren't the ones who can change things, since they lack most legal rights. I mean, yes, in the meantime the only logical choice is for them to ignore it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/30/hispanic-students-vanish-_0_n_989669.html
Education officials say scores of immigrant families have withdrawn their children from classes or kept them home this week, afraid that sending the kids to school would draw attention from authorities.
There are no precise statewide numbers. But several districts with large immigrant enrollments – from small towns to large urban districts – reported a sudden exodus of children of Hispanic parents, some of whom told officials they planned to leave the state to avoid trouble with the law, which requires schools to check students' immigration status.
The anxiety has become so intense that the superintendent in one of the state's largest cities, Huntsville, went on a Spanish-language television show Thursday to try to calm widespread worries.
"In the case of this law, our students do not have anything to fear," Casey Wardynski said in halting Spanish. He urged families to send students to class and explained that the state is only trying to compile statistics.
Police, he insisted, were not getting involved in schools.
Victor Palafox graduated from a high school in suburban Birmingham last year and has lived in the United States without documentation since age 6, when his parents brought him and his brother here from Mexico.
"Younger students are watching their lives taken from their hands," said Palafox, whose family is staying put.
In Montgomery County, more than 200 Hispanic students were absent the morning after the judge's Wednesday ruling. A handful withdrew.
In tiny Albertville, 35 students withdrew in one day. And about 20 students in Shelby County, in suburban Birmingham, either withdrew or told teachers they were leaving.
Local and state officials are pleading with immigrant families to keep their children enrolled. The law does not ban anyone from school, they say, and neither students nor parents will be arrested for trying to get an education.
But many Spanish-speaking families aren't waiting around to see what happens.
A school worker in Albertville – a community with a large poultry industry that employs many Hispanic workers – said Friday that many families might leave town over the weekend for other states. About 22 percent of the community's 4,200 students are Hispanic.
"I met a Hispanic mother in the hallway at our community learning center this morning, where enrollment and withdrawal happens. She looked at me with tears in her eyes. I asked, `Are you leaving?' She said `Yes,' and hugged me, crying," said the worker, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not an authorized spokeswoman.
In Russellville, which has one of the largest immigrant populations in the state because of its poultry plants, overall school attendance was down more than 2 percent after the ruling, and the rate was higher among Hispanic students.
There's "no firm data yet, but several students have related to their teachers that they may be moving soon," said George Harper, who works in the central office.
Schools in Baldwin County, a heavily agricultural and tourist area near the Gulf Coast, and in Decatur in the Tennessee Valley also reported sudden decreases in Hispanic attendance.
The law does not require proof of citizenship to enroll, and it does not apply to any students who were enrolled before Sept. 1. While most students are not affected, school systems are supposed to begin checking the status of first-time enrollees now.
The Obama administration filed court documents Friday announcing its plans to appeal the ruling that upheld the law.
The state has distributed to schools sample letters that can be sent to parents of new students informing them of the law's requirements for either citizenship documents or sworn statements by parents.
In an attempt to ease suspicions that the law may lead to arrests, the letter tells parents immigration information will be used only to gather statistics.
"Rest assured," the letter states, "that it will not be a problem if you are unable or unwilling to provide either of the documents."