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Writer's Block:
A new Mary Sue test
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A new Mary Sue test:

 126 nrjxll, Wed, 21st Sep '11 6:40:51 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]I think that should be expected, seeing as you can still get points for something that's normal for a character's species/setting if that something is not present in Real Life humans. The rationale seems to be that it's possible to have entire species /cultures of Mary Sues, so "normal for their species" does not automatically disqualify something from being a Sue trait. This does, however, produce the effect that nonhumans will automatically score higher simply because they aren't human.

 127 Mr AHR, Wed, 21st Sep '11 6:50:01 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
Homework due.

Lets do another!

Pup:

  • 6-2
  • 7-4
  • 9-6
  • 10-8
  • 10a-10
  • 11-12
  • 13-14
  • 15-16
  • 16-18
  • 17-23
  • 18-25
  • 19-27
  • 20-29
  • 23-31
  • 24-33
  • 31-35
  • 32-37
  • 33-39
  • 33a-41
  • 36-43
  • 36b-45
  • 41-47
  • 44-49
  • 45-51
  • 46-53
  • 50-55
  • 52-58
  • 54-61
  • 55-64
  • 58-67
  • 67-70
  • 69-73
  • 70-76
  • 75-79
  • 82-82
  • 85-81
  • 91-80
  • 100-79

Whooh. Close score to the other one.

Seer:

  • 4-1
  • 5-2
  • 6-4
  • 7-6
  • 9-8
  • 20-10
  • 24-12
  • 25-14
  • 25b-16
  • 30-18
  • 35-20
  • 36-22
  • 44-24
  • 46-26
  • 52-29
  • 54-32
  • 56-35
  • 58-38
  • 59-41
  • 60-44
  • 66b-47
  • 68-50
  • 68a-53
  • 69-56
  • 69a-59
  • 70-62
  • 73-65
  • 74-68
  • 76-71
  • 77-74
  • 77a-77
  • 78a-80
  • 85-79

—-

Wow. The same score.

Ah, such glorious sue-ness.

edited 21st Sep '11 7:04:05 PM by MrAHR

 128 Teraus, Wed, 21st Sep '11 7:07:52 PM from The Origin of Dreams
Awesome Lightning Mantra
[up] You'll NEVER beat Enoby.
"You cannot judge a system if your judgement is determined by the system."
 129 nrjxll, Wed, 21st Sep '11 7:10:53 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]Would you mind giving me the exact breakdown on its score, if you wrote one down?

 130 Mr AHR, Wed, 21st Sep '11 7:11:10 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
I don't plan on. I'm just amused by how many of my characters can consistently score.
 131 Philosopher, Wed, 21st Sep '11 7:29:15 PM from Behind the Wall
Coming For you
Nice test.

I do have a few questions about the questions.

12: Does this count if they become a cyborg thing and their old race goes extinct?

21: Do I get a point if their are no mentioned other races and the character is the first of their kind?

22: Do things like Cyborgs, Centaurs, Minotaurs count?

65: Does this count since my character is saving them from the apocalypse essentially?

78: If a character counterfeits do you get a point?
The stick figure wants you....dead.
 132 chihuahua 0, Wed, 21st Sep '11 7:42:15 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
 133 nrjxll, Wed, 21st Sep '11 8:02:47 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]I meant what the exact results were (where the total 164 added up from).

Also known as Katz
I noticed something odd - fairly minor characters of fantasy species actually score higher than some more central human characters.

Hmm, it shouldn't. They'll rack up some of the unusual-race points, but the main character should get more of the high-point questions in sections 4 and 5 since they do most of the stuff. I'll have to run some canon side characters and see how they fare.

Also known as Katz
nrjxll: The logic is that the intersection of cool and tragic is doubly potentially-Sueish. But the moral of this story is that what you put in the initial test will be automatically accepted, but what you add upon revision will be subjected to intense scrutiny.

Philosopher: Yes, yes, not unless they're actually the offspring of a human and a horse/bull/robot, no, no.

Author in waiting
[up][up]I believe that was my earlier point, my character, who was a unicorn, got a lot of points just because she wasn't human.
I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect.
 137 Teraus, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 9:22:56 AM from The Origin of Dreams
Awesome Lightning Mantra
[up][up][up][up] I didn't keep the actual answers anywhere. You could try testing her, but our answers might differ. I was doubtful in many of my answers about her.
"You cannot judge a system if your judgement is determined by the system."
 138 Bobby G, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 9:33:01 AM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
Hmm, it shouldn't. They'll rack up some of the unusual-race points, but the main character should get more of the high-point questions in sections 4 and 5 since they do most of the stuff. I'll have to run some canon side characters and see how they fare.

It's fairly easy to go through 4 and 5 with very few or no postives, even for plot movers and shakers.
 139 nrjxll, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 9:39:56 AM Relationship Status: Not war
[up][up][up][up]The point I'm making is that Cool and Unusual Punishment does not, in fact, have anything to do with "cool", name aside. It's almost entirely a comedy trope.

And I'm fine with the other changes - I'm just focusing on this one because 1) I think it's based off of a misunderstanding of the trope and 2) I feel responsible for its inclusion, having brought it up in my post on my pseudo-Parody Stu.

edited 22nd Sep '11 9:41:45 AM by nrjxll

Also known as Katz
[up]I wasn't particularly thinking of your Parody Stu, though obviously such a character will score high.

 141 nrjxll, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 11:04:17 AM Relationship Status: Not war
Well, he was supposed to score high, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this. What I was referring to was this section from the post in question:

11. Has your character been tortured?

Yes (Cool and Unusual Punishment probably shouldn't count, but I did say I'm checking every question that could possibly be seen as a "yes")

This referred to an incident where the bad guys "tortured" him by reading to him from celebrity gossip magazines. I'm concerned that this somehow created that impression that Cool and Unusual Punishment was even slightly something associated with Mary Sues, when it could not possibly be further from it. To quote the actual definition:

Besides, why beat the hero when you can torture him with the most horrible thing in the universe... six hours of opera (Scare Chord)! Or six hours of laxative commercials, or six hours of the Ice Capades. Basically anything so bad that the Suckiness Is Painful. It would make anyone confess.

A variant is for the villain to do torture that is so ridiculous it would never work, but everyone acts as if it would.

Or the laconic: "ridiculous punishments". This is not something that would give characters "cool" points. It is not something that would give them sympathy points, at least not of The Woobie type. It's almost purely a comedy trope and I can't see what it's doing on the test.

edited 22nd Sep '11 11:04:28 AM by nrjxll

Also known as Katz
[up]I actually totally didn't notice that. That does sound like I put it in just because of your character (but I really didn't).

Also known as Katz
So what do other people think? Should "cool and unusual punishment" be on the test?

 144 Mr AHR, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 6:41:02 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
I say yes. It makes the thing they went through unique.
 145 nrjxll, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 6:49:52 PM Relationship Status: Not war
"Unique" has nothing to do with the trope - again, it's a ridiculous punishment or form of "torture" (often involving Suckiness Is Painful).

I'm sorry for derailing the thread like this, but adding something like that really is the stuff of bad trait-based Mary Sue litmus tests. I'm well aware that a character is not a Sue just because one trait on the test applies to them, but the traits should have some relationship to the concept of a Mary Sue. The only connection Cool and Unusual Punishment has is that it happens to share the letters a, e, m, s, and u. I cannot think of any possible way this belongs on the test and having it there sets a bad precedent.

 146 Merlo, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 6:53:39 PM from the masochist chamber
*hrrrrrk*
Are we talking about the trope Cool and Unusual Punishment, or just torture in general?
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...
 147 nrjxll, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 6:54:49 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Cool and Unusual Punishment - torture in general makes perfect sense to go in the section of the test it's on.

 148 Merlo, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 6:55:45 PM from the masochist chamber
*hrrrrrk*
Then Cool and Unusual Punishment (the trope) shouldn't be there, methinks.

I don't think different gender should be a Desuifier either. But maybe Incompatible Orientation to the author should be.

edited 22nd Sep '11 6:59:01 PM by Merlo

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...
 149 Bobby G, Thu, 22nd Sep '11 7:07:15 PM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
I'm with nrjxll on Cool and Unusual Punishment. There's nothing Mary Sue about it; it makes the character look kind of silly.

Not sure about gender. It's certainly possible to make Sues of the opposite sex, but I don't know how typical that is.
Also known as Katz
OK, majority rules. I'll take it off.

Total posts: 333
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