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Cynical mentor, Idealistic villain

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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#1: Sep 16th 2011 at 9:04:03 PM

It seems that the heroes and the main villain of my story have rather different place on the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism.

Marcus Alfred Devon, one of the core cast, is a six hundred years old alchemist and the mentor of Jang Hyun Soo, the main character. Although he is initially shown as cheerful, carefree, and often goofy scientist, he looks down on humans, claiming that even after a half millennia, they keep making same mistakes over and over and commits atrocity to one another. The only reason why he kept on living is so that he could see humanity learn its lesson and stray off from path of inevitable self-destruction. He only volunteered to be Hyun Soo’s mentor because the boy somehow is linked to the very core of reality itself, which when activated properly, can manipulate the reality itself.

His current goal is to find out the secret of the connection so he can hijack the power himself and just end the humanity and erase himself out of the record of universe itself. All this because he was, according to him, “fed up with humanity’s stubbornness and stupidity.” He just wants to end it all.

The main villain, N (yes, it’s that one), has noticeably different motivation. He is, besides above average intellect, a normal human. Although he was psychologically abused because he was a bastard, he has faith in humanity and appreciates its struggle to survive. He likes people who work hard, never give up, and encourages people to strive to unlock their true potential, which he thinks is the reason for each person’s existence. However, his methods can be less than benevolent, such as forcing some of the characters to unleash their extremely dangerous suppressed persona, which they did their utmost best to hide from everyone. He thinks it’s all good to let it all out and blames society for not understanding those kinds of people and their effort to get in touch with themselves.

One of the key role he has is that he is more or less a very unofficial ambassador of humanity itself for The Deviation, a group of malevolent cosmic entities created from the residue of humanity’s mind and magic activities, capable of mass destruction, such as destroying planets. He routinely persuades and distract them to leave humanity alone, usually leading them to have infighting instead. Unfortunately, such quarrel causes natural disaster sized chaos to Earth as well, but hey at least humanity can handle it. He has a very soft spot toward the main character because he has power to unlock people’s connection with the Origin, the incarnation of the reality itself. He condemns Marcus’ lack of appreciation toward human potential, while being accused of not knowing how the world works by the alchemist in turn.

His goal in the story is to persuade Hyun Soo to his side, away from Marcus, and develop his power in a way that would benefit more people. It’s not an easy job for him because he was involved with many of those chaos caused by The Deviation and has no way to prove what Marcus is planning.

This set up gives impression that the villain and the protagonist’s mentor should have the roles switched. The problem is, how can I make Marcus sympathetic while making N more threatening?

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
alethiophile Shadowed Philosopher from Ëa Since: Nov, 2009
Shadowed Philosopher
#2: Sep 16th 2011 at 9:20:18 PM

Switch their goals around? tongue

Seriously, I would have a hard time thinking of someone who's actively working for the end of humanity as a good person at all, ever, regardless of anything else. And similarly, though you could make N more threatening by having him use questionable methods in pursuit of his laudable goals, I'm always going to find him sympathetic as long as his goal is to improve humanity. (If you want to look at an example, though, try the Mesan Alignment from the Honor Harrington books. They're basically transhumanists driven underground by the Beowulf code, and they're currently orchestrating the disastrous fall of the biggest human polity in history (which is, admittedly, irreparably corrupt) so they can gather power by picking up the pieces.)

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#3: Sep 16th 2011 at 9:31:42 PM

[up][up] I think what you're doing with that is really quite admirable. It sounds incredibly interesting on the surface of it, with the villain taking on the characteristics normally associated with a hero and vise-versa.

yey
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#4: Sep 16th 2011 at 11:31:28 PM

[up]I largely agree with this. However, I have to say that Marcus is not just cynical - he is a villain, plain and simple, and the fact that he happens to be mentoring the hero doesn't change that one iota. I really can't see away to make him sympathetic in any way other then the Tragic Villain sense (not to say that he is one right now) without fundamentally altering his character.

edited 16th Sep '11 11:32:04 PM by nrjxll

tropetown Since: Mar, 2011
#5: Sep 17th 2011 at 11:28:28 AM

Maybe you should lessen the Nietzsche Wannabe-ness that Marcus has, if you really want to make him into a sympathetic character. Anyone who wants to end humanity simply because Humans Are Bastards is a villain, plain and simple. On the other hand, you could just make Marcus the final villain of the story when his plans are revealed.

edited 17th Sep '11 11:29:07 AM by tropetown

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#6: Sep 18th 2011 at 2:30:18 AM

Another thing I would like to mention is the intensity and the brutality with which Marcus trains Hyun Soo, although this isn't shown in the first season.

First, Marcus put Hyun Soo in a time loop chamber that resets every set time. After stating that he can get away with killing, he immediately blows his pupil's head off. He proceeds to repeat that until his pupil loses fear of death, killing him differently everytime. He knows that the regimen is absolutely insane, but he does find it necessary and feels sick about himself.

An interesting aspect about his goal is that as time goes on, he starts to care less and less about it and starts to question it. He was an apprentice to another powerful alchemist and during those times, and after his master disappeared, he started to think that he doesn't have a main role in The Flow of the world and wherever he went and work at, usually in school or science institution, he just stayed in the behind and allowed others take credits for his work.

During those time, he kept observed the movement of history and more and more grown disdainful toward humanity, but this time, it's more of because how people who were close to him were either sacrificed by self-interested powerful people or throwing themselves into wars of idealogies which he finds contemptible. Originally, he wanted to find the Origin so he could find the ultimate answer, one which everyone has to accept and leaves no room for any argument because of its sheer absoluteness.

What pushed over the edge was one time in 20th century where he was assigned as a scientist that directly focused on trying to contact the Origin. Delighted, he took the job. However, it required him to use human sacrifices, right after he has done his first experiment that used them. Thinking that if he were to get involved with this, he might as well go to the end. Years passed with him involving into more and more immoral projects, then one day, after realizing that he had sacrificed some kids that he was taking care of and being a MASSIVE children lover, he snaps, murders the entire research staffs and those who supervised the projects, and goes into hiding.

He met 7 years old Hyun Soo in London when the latter's family was travelling. After the kid was attacked by a Reaper, a vampire that rips out soul, he unconsciously intervened. Because he also has history with Hyun Soo's father, he performed the ritual which he thought can bring a soul back from the Origin, which he honestly thought was impossible but gave a shot anyways. The kid returns, and even comes back with a small connection with the Origin as well. Finding what he has been looking for all his time, he volunteers to take care after and teach him how to use his power in full capacity, leaving the part that he wants to obliterate humanity, of course.

I guess that he thought humanity was dangerous because its capability of doing unspeakbale evil, but in truth, it's more of extreme self-loathe. This is where he shows hypocrisy; he hates humanity and himself and doesn't want to live anymore, but he's scared of death, or the judgement that would fall on him after that. As the story goes on, there was actually some chances when he could have just let the world end, like the climax of the first arc, but he did his darned best to stop it, much to his later regret. Also, as he spend time with his pupil, he grows fond of the kid's earnest and persevering attitude. Near the end, he even listens to N's advice; if he thinks humanity is such a shitfuck, as a wise man with experience of centuries, he should guide it to a path of improvement, instead of pushing them toward the path that he does not approve.

I'm trying to write so that while he initially starts extremely nihilistic and self-loathing, he grows to forgive himself and accept humanity's flawedness and try to fix it as much as he can, while most importantly, enjoy his life.

His motivation is one of the most important aspects of the plot and the hardest to write because how complicate and contradicting it can get. Any advice on this matter?

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
tropetown Since: Mar, 2011
#7: Sep 19th 2011 at 8:37:08 PM

Huh. I get the feeling that I'd really, really like Marcus. Since he seems to be a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, how about playing up the Woobie aspects of his character, and make the "destroyer of worlds" aspect a sympathetic trait, as it would simply highlight how broken he really feels inside? In the end, you can have him break out of his suicidal nihilism in some way; I'm not familiar with the details of your story (though it seems very interesting), so I'm not sure how he could go about doing that. He can remain a cynic, of course, but end the story as a Knight in Sour Armor rather than a Nietzsche Wannabe.

edited 19th Sep '11 8:37:33 PM by tropetown

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#8: Sep 20th 2011 at 7:52:51 AM

Ah, thanks. You know, I think I'm going to enjoy writing him because he is a character, along with the MC's father, who is primarily motivated by guilt and self-loath, which are themes that intrique me the most.

Hmm, would Marcus' attitude can be described as being Tsundere toward the humanity itself?

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#9: Sep 21st 2011 at 3:21:04 PM

Maybe you could change the mentor's goal from "destroy humanity" to "free humanity from vice and weakness no matter the cost"?

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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#10: Sep 21st 2011 at 9:54:27 PM

[up] I don't really know how can anyone do that. :/

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
alethiophile Shadowed Philosopher from Ëa Since: Nov, 2009
Shadowed Philosopher
#11: Sep 21st 2011 at 10:38:01 PM

Some sort of Assimilation Plot perhaps?

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
tropetown Since: Mar, 2011
#12: Sep 21st 2011 at 11:03:32 PM

Hmm, would Marcus' attitude can be described as being Tsundere toward the humanity itself?

I hadn't thought of it that way; could be.

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