Needs a Rename: Inspector Zenigata

First, its a character-named trope, and (outside a small handful of incredibly iconic examples, such as The Scrooge and Inspector Javert), those are a no-no. In support of that, the character its named after a) isn't all that well known, b) is from a work that, while possibly popular, is hardly iconic enough to retain a character's name from it as a trope title.

Its non-indicatory, and requires a knowledge of the Lupin anime series to make any sense at all.

Supporting a rename. Actually, I'm surprised we still have this...

It's one of a set of Theme Naming with Inspector Lestrade and Inspector Javert. It was at one point just "The Zenigata" and at the time, theme name won out in the crowner over what are now the redirects.

Supporting a rename as well.

Agreeing with the rename.

The character-based name shouldn't have even been included in the Crowner, as the character in question is hardly on the same level of iconicry as Lestrade and Javert.

I won't oppose the rename, though I'd like to see some evidence that the name is causing problems before I really get behind it.

With nrj on this one. Be Bold and all, but first give me a concrete reason.

How about the fact that "Do not name a trope after a character" is policy, with certain very specific exceptions?

Inspector Zenigata found in: 166 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 320 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

This is a pretty old trope, right? I can't really tell if these stats are any good. It's not like this is something that comes up in every show. Its a bit rare.

Still, that's low enough to rename without trouble.

The stats are not bad by any stretch. If the usage is also correct than the trope is healthy. Also, the rename was done over a year ago and I'm pretty sure there was at least one mod (Maddy?) involved in the discussion; no motion was made to disallow it from the crowner.

edited 11th Sep '11 4:35:55 PM by Elle

That rule was in effect at the time it was named; absent any evidence otherwise I assume the competence of the mods: they saw it and allowed it.

I'd still like to see missue before any serious talk about renaming

Reasons for a rename:

1. Its a Character named trope, and character-named tropes are a no-no.
2. Its named after an obscure character, who no one outside of anime fandom has likely ever heard of (and universal familiarity is just about the only reason to keep a character-named trope).
3. The name is non-indicatory and meaningless for anyone who isn't familiar with the source work.

Which adds up to "bad trope name", regardless of lack of misuse. Let me remind you all that a trope need not be misused for it to need a rename, if the name is a bad one.

And this one is a bad one, QED.

Yet "It (the trope) ain't broke" is still the number one reason not to rename. You need either overwhelming support or admin fiat to change that. If you want to gather that support, I suggest looking for justification that would be sufficient to convince others the prior TRS decision should be overturned.

And Javert, I think is the only one you can really argue for being "iconic". Lestrade was one of a number of regular Scotland Yard inspectors that rotated in appearance through the Holmes stories. He probably is the best known of them, but he doesn't have the same level of name recognition as Holmes and Watson themselves.

edited 11th Sep '11 7:06:23 PM by Elle

Numbers one and three apply just as much to Inspector Javert and Inspector Lestrade and not everybody's heard of those two, either. If there's no misuse, the Theme Naming means we should leave this alone(now, if you wanted to be consistent and rename all three...).

I'd want to see a wick check before getting solidly behind a rename.

While I dislike discussions of how iconic any given character is for obvious reasons, I will say that Lestrade is easily the most iconic of those inspectors, being the only one to make it into most adaptations.

I'd hesitate to call Javert iconic. Or Lestrade. Or this dude. I'm always in favor of renaming character named tropes, but it seems to be working, as much as I dislike it.

I don't see this trope being named after a character being a bad thing because, and only because, it's associated to other tropes by Theme Naming, which helps a lot (we are hypermedia after all). Adding to that that 1.- it works and has worked and 2.- the character of the name is not going to be confused with someone else (ie.: it's not like this trope is named The Jimmy), I'd say there's no reason to rename this trope.

Of course, propose searchable redirects all you want. That's a thing this trope, and the Lestrade one, seem to be sorely missing.

I'll certainly concede that "Zenigata" passes the One Mario Limit.

I want to say I think we should rename it automatically for being a character named trope, but since it's not just 'The Zenigata' I'm willing to give it a bit of slack. Inspector gives you at least some context.

If Inspector Zenigata does pass the One Mario Limit, that's only due to the Weird Al Effect - much like most of the major characters in Lupin The Third, Koichi Zenigata is named after a fictional detective, Heiji Zenigata, whose stories took place around the later centuries of the Tokugawa shogunate.

The original Zenigata got his name because his signature attack was throwing zeni coins very fast to knock out foes (coins as missile weapons are still frequently used in Japanese media as a Shout-Out to the original Zenigata - for example, Johnny of Guilty Gear does it in a similar fashion, and the original name of the Coin Toss relic in Final Fantasy VI was "Heiji's Jitte"). I'll grant that the Lupin The Third character is more well-known outside of Japan, but I think it's a stretch to say that he's unique.

Given the extensive history of the original Zenigata (30 movies, 6 television shows, the longest of which ran 888 episodes, and a number of novels), I think I can come up with one very good argument for a rename - Inspector Zenigata should probably be about the original character instead of the trope. I'm not an expert on the character, but I have taken in enough that I feel confident that I could at least get a good start on a page for the character.

If the character is culturally important (a Japanese Sherlock Holmes???), then that's yet another reason to not name the trope after the character.

Not quite - Heiji Zenigata is a police officer, so I think the more apt comparison would be to Joe Friday of Dragnet or your personal favorite Law And Order detective. But yes, I think, given how culturally relevant Heiji is (he's practically a stock Shout-Out in Japan), he should get the article with this title.