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deuxhero Micromastophile from FL-24 Since: Jan, 2001
Micromastophile
#1: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:54:00 PM

Is anyone else disapointed by the trend of making everything a minigame? Lockpicking? Mini game! Talking? Minigame! Hacking? Minigame! Why do they do this?

It mostly started with the 360/PS 3 era, though I would be lying if I said it wasn't in the PS 2/GCN/Xbox era.

I dislike this trend because

  1. It makes character skill irrelevant. Oblivion is a good example here, as even the most inept security score has little impact on being able to beat the mini-game, even when it is supposedly on its hardest difficulty. In Arcanum and Fallout a low lock-pick score completely prevents you from picking a lock unless you raise the score. While Arcanum's implementation itself had issues (Only 1 obscure companion invested in the skill by any noticeable amount, and there were almost no "easy" locks, making any investment at the low end pointlesss), it gave encouragement to play a character that invested in the skill in both games, as there were doors you would never open otherwise.
  2. They very often get repetitive, as it assigns a barely developed game to. Fallout 3's system, where you aren't allowed to try the minigame until you have some skill screams "why have the minigame and not just let the player use their skill"?

Thoughts.

edited 24th Aug '11 1:54:17 PM by deuxhero

Schitzo HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE from Akumajou Dracula Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE
#2: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:56:12 PM

I just hate how it breaks the flow of gameplay.

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deuxhero Micromastophile from FL-24 Since: Jan, 2001
Micromastophile
#3: Aug 24th 2011 at 2:01:00 PM

That's also true. Oblivion's minigames scream "here we go again", because once you picked a lock, you've picked them all.

TheInferno |Y| = |X| Add 5 from probably on Earth Since: Jul, 2010
|Y| = |X| Add 5
#4: Aug 24th 2011 at 2:13:01 PM

I will say that I actually kinda agree with you on Oblivion's lockpicking (Very Hard doors were, well, Very Hard, but even then with practice you could do it and it wasn't hard for me to build up a backlog of lockpicks in the hundreds anyhow), but I actually liked the Fallout 3/NV way of "You need this much skill, otherwise you can't try at all, and then you have to pick the lock.

That's just my opinion, though.

"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
Litis from Israel Since: Jul, 2009
#5: Aug 24th 2011 at 2:50:54 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#6: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:15:36 PM

No need for that, Litis. As it happens I actually agree with him here; I'd rather have these things decided by my character's skill, not mine.

Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#7: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:18:12 PM

There's a reason things are often made into minigames. Stuff like lockpicking and hacking are boring without minigames.

Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#8: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:26:13 PM

Lockpicking isn't meant to be exciting in and of itself; it's what's behind the lock i'm after. The minigame just delays it.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#9: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:29:25 PM

Blame Donkey Kong 64. No, you can't have your banana, you have to do a stupid minigame first.

edit:blame everyone who didn't play Donkey Kong 64 but went on to develop games and repeated its mistakes.

The worst Lock Picking Minigame was probably Eternal Darkness but in that case, it was intentional. They forced you to take your eyes away from your surroundings after depriving you of your safe house and it worked too well!

edited 24th Aug '11 3:42:10 PM by Cider

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Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#10: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:32:47 PM

Oddly I don't mind it in DK 64. Maybe just because it was one of my first games ever. I dunno.

Mammalsauce Since: Mar, 2010
#11: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:40:35 PM

Indeed, I was just thinking of the same thing with DX:HR's hacking minigame. I really can't think of one I liked after more than one hack/lockpick. I like how VTMB did both of those things (I am going to mention it in every thread because it is the direction I wish RP Gs went in... minus the incomplete and buggy part).

Oddly enough I think Fallout 3 had the least terrible hacking/lockpicking minigames, though I still got tired and resorted to force lock+quick load.

stevebat Since: Nov, 2009
#12: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:51:33 PM

At least in Oblivion lockpicking becomes irrelevant after Getting the Skeleton Key

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#13: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:54:59 PM

The original deus ex's approach is my favourite here. Lockpicking and hacking requires resources- higher character skill means you can hack things with less resources. Low character skills will barely be able to hack a lot of the more important stuff because there simply aren't enough resources.

On top of that, using a single resource takes time and it's in real time rather than some alternate dimension where everyone sits still until you've finished hacking. So a higher character skill will be a lot more helpful as less resources= less time= less likely for enemies to spot you and kill you/raise the alarm.

I will say though, that the concept isn't completely irredeemable. Just cause a character has the skill shouldn't mean he auto unlocks everything. A character with a high enough combat skill doesn't result in everyone around him autodying cause his skill is enough- that's just stupid. The difference is that combat is an integral part of gameplay while these minigames are afterthoughts.

dorkatlarge Spoony Bard from Damcyan Castle Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to the music
Spoony Bard
#14: Aug 24th 2011 at 4:26:44 PM

Some video games have mini games so good they qualify for Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer. Some which I've really liked:

  • Fly swatting in Mario Paint.

  • The monster betting game in Dragon Quest 3. It's mostly luck, though it helps to know the relative strengths of monsters.

  • Competitive Mario Bros mode in Super Mario 3.

  • Spending too much time on relationships in Harvest Moon Back to Nature, and Thousand Arms. Some relationship-building was necessary in both games, but a player could spend hours with unimportant NPCs.

  • The bread race in Tokimeki Memorial Girls Side DS 1-2. The game includes some other mini games, some of which were too short (pillow fighting), and others that I did not enjoy (making chocolate).

Mammalsauce Since: Mar, 2010
#15: Aug 24th 2011 at 5:46:43 PM

The card game in FF 8 is a billion times better than the game proper. I dislike FF 8 as a whole but the card game was fun enough for me to put up with playing a significant portion of it, looking for all the cards.

RocketDude Face Time from AZ, United States Since: May, 2009
Face Time
#16: Aug 24th 2011 at 8:02:15 PM

Alpha Protocol lets you take the easy way out by using an EMP.

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Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
Das kann doch nicht sein!
#17: Aug 25th 2011 at 12:39:27 AM

Depends on the minigame. While lockpicking is alright, hacking in Fallout 3 and New Vegas is very annoying.

I like the ones of Alpha Protocol, though.

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Beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#18: Aug 25th 2011 at 6:38:11 AM

Yeah, Triple Triad was the best part about FFVIII. Chocobo Hot & Cold in FFIX was great too. Too bad pretty much every other FF minigame has sucked.

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TheHeroHartmut Nerds nearly need needy nerdy nerds from a cave, according to my father (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
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#19: Aug 25th 2011 at 9:17:27 AM

[up] Well, YMMV with Blitzball. I liked it, personally.

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Litis from Israel Since: Jul, 2009
#20: Aug 25th 2011 at 9:52:17 AM

My previous post was in jest, so whatever.

Minigames won't be going anywhere any time soon because they satiate the developers' ever growing itch for making games more "cinematic" and "realistic". As for me, I think minigames are a bad thing only when they either are absolutely unskippable or weren't designed with the player getting bored with them sooner or later in mind. Or both, obviously.

"I am a minigame because you're trying to hack a computer. You cannot bypass me because this is an interactive bit to make the game feel more dramatic, like a movie. Soon your time for hacking the computer will run out... time's up."

SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#21: Aug 25th 2011 at 10:18:26 AM

The only minigame I can remember liking was Biochock's.

Litis from Israel Since: Jul, 2009
#22: Aug 25th 2011 at 10:26:29 AM

The hacking minigame in BioShock 2 was more fun than the first game's at the expense of in-universe realism, I think.

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