Random Kingdom Hearts Community Thread

I don't see why requiring timing is necessarily a good thing. I like games that give you time to think and come up with strategies instead of needing you to act immediately, which limits how much strategy there can be. Not to mention that menu-based gameplay generally allows more options than when you're limited to so many buttons. I actually like action games, but I don't think they require more strategy than RPG's or tactical games.

Also, learning what to prioritize and how to ration energy is just as important, if not moreso, in RPG's, so I don't get where that's coming from.

edited 22nd Aug '11 3:59:48 PM by Beorc

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Like I said, this isn't a problem in worthwhile action games because they require you to come up with strategy and act it out.

In theory, yes, but usually the strategies all just come down to "exploit their weaknesses" for regular enemies and "buff yourself and debuff the boss and pray you kill it before it kills you" for boss battles.

I was actually drawing a parallel there, saying that that element is present just as much in action games as in RPGs, rather than that it's only present in the former.

edited 22nd Aug '11 4:05:00 PM by Turtle

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@Turtle Damn I failed being you. I thought you were a Pokemon player.....I guess I got you mixed up with Brian though

edited 22nd Aug '11 4:05:34 PM by ZackFair

I used to play that series before I realized that every installment is the same grindy grindfest with basically the same formula and lost patience for all that nonsense. Pokemon is actally largely responsible for my not caring for turn-based RPGs.

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Okay, here's an example of a basic strategy in FFXIII: an enemy can kill you in a single hit and has over five million HP, so you have to use the earth-based summon to knock him down at the start of the battle, then inflict as many debuffs as you can until the summon runs out, then with a party of SAB/SAB/SYN, use Death repeatedly, which has a chance of inflicting instamt death that improves with how many debuffs are inflicted on it. Thus you let the Synergist cast Haste to let you fit in more hits, while the Saboteur continues to inglict debuffs on the enemy, while you continue to use Death until it dies.

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Perfect example of

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Okay, give an example of a strategy in an action game, then. It's just stupid that it doesn't count as strategy if it involves buffs and debuffs at all, though.

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Okay, take Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 2. Normally I wouldn't be citing this game as an example of good gameplay, but Sephy is probably the only example of a well-thought-out battle in the bunch.

You have to know how and when to block. You have to anticipate his patterns in order to dodge better. You have to know what attacks you can tank to sacrifice HP for an easy counter and what attacks to avoid at all costs. You have to know when it's safe to approach and when he's going to nail you with his Perish... now... attack.

Before the battle even starts, you need to decide what Keyblade you're going to use and what accessories, items, and abilities you're going to equip.

And then you actually have to execute these strategies effectively.

(´･ω･`)

So, memorize blocking and dodging over repeated losses and then spam the X button when he's open?

I know it's not that simple, but neither is what you're simplifying RPG's into.

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You spam X in that fight, you die.

You spam Nuke magic in turn-based RPGs, you win.

In other words, timing.

edited 22nd Aug '11 4:26:31 PM by Turtle

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Except you don't.

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That's pretty much been my experience, especially in the endgame of a given RPG. Whatever strategy may have been present just sort of goes away and you cast all your -aga spells until whatever it is you're fighting drops dead.

...I guess what my real problem is in RPGs isn't what the player does, but rather the lack of a player's ability to react to what the enemy does except for maybe casting a healing spell.

edited 22nd Aug '11 4:32:35 PM by Turtle

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Well, in RPG's, buffs are basically the equivalent to dodging and blocking.

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But they'll only halve the damage at best, and take no more skill to set up than anything else. Instead of spamming an action on the enemy, you're spamming it on your party.

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Not necessarily. In Final Fantasy IV, there's the Blink spell which makes the next attack not deal any damage, or the Hide ability for example. And the point is balancing out using buffs, healing, attacking, and debuffing to deal damage while also keeping up with the damage the enemy deals. The fact that you don't like that you can't completely avoid damage is just something that comes down to taste, I suppose, though.

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I dislike games where the enemy can 1 hit kill you, typical of an FF boss. It's annoying and is easier than actually balancing the enemy so you can beat it with somne challege, but without it being cheap. Buffs should never be necessary, like magic they should be an alternative to attacking, that can be used in conjunction to make the battle go easier/faster/what have you.

KH is actually pretty decent IMO for an RPG that has a fair battle system, not saying it isn't cheap or lacking occassionally, but it's better than many FF's. KH 2 being a button masher wasn't exactly what I had in mind, but I do like the fact that you literally can use only X and win rather easily, meaning spells/skills come down to a personal choice of what to use. Of course, your allies mostly became fodder, or bait for limits. So all in all, if KH 2's button mash was revamped to allow for your allies actually being damn near necessary to survive, like the first game, I think it'd be a fine balance. Of course it's more complicated than that though, and I may just be an idiot.

"Life is something that is cheap. Especially my life."

Kurt Zisa was a good example of fair difficulty.

Unlike Vanitas Remnant. D:

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Actually, kinda. The problem with his spinning was you could roll/jump a little to early and either Sora would descend too fast and get hit, or he's curve slightly and get hit. His actual sword attacks are pretty easy to dodge/block once you know what you're doing, the orb form is easy as hell, I just with the head wouldn't be able to attack when you've got the rest of his body stunned.

Riku 2 is pretty fair IMO, unless he spams Dark Aura, or is it Break? Though the problem with that is if you happen to glide into those last aftershocks it sends out.

Now phantom is pretty cheap however. Instant removal? Flying back to the clock is annoying, expecially when he's faster than you. And half the time your magic doesn't line up or he moves slightly and it misses. His coat also blocks it. It's a good idea, but was executed rather poorly.

But really any of the bosses do require some strategy, particularly the bonus ones. Sepy's only major problem is the small space you're in, and Sora's lackluster attacking style.

"Life is something that is cheap. Especially my life."

Even Vanitas Remnant?

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Especially Vanitas Remnant.

Of course, I can't know that from experience, but why do people constantly debate what strategy to use on him if he doesn't require strategy?

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Dunno.

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But Vanitas Remnant and Mysterious Figure are both very cheap, and I do know that from experience.

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There's no such thing as "cheap." Or at least, not the way the word is being thrown around in this thread. As far as I can tell, every single one of their attacks can be dodged with adequate precision, no? So it is your own fault when you fail one of those battles, no? Seriously - again, I've never played BbS - correct me if I'm wrong here.

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Well, VR's moves tend to bring you down to 1 HP, he's very fast, one move makes him invincible, his shadow clones cause Blind (which actually blinds you with a small vision of range), and another of his attacks can confuse you.

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