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Convert to Index?: Standard Status Effects get usage counts

Can we get a status update on the YKTTW drafts that are pending?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Dragon Writer
When I look at this page anymore, I think it's safe and useful to keep a list describing what actual gameplay effects are commonly associated with the effect names. E.g., Everybody knows what to expect when they see a status label like "poison" or "sleep". (Yes, the exact details vary per system, but...)

IMHO what needs to be done to the page as-is is get rid of the per-effect example sorting and convert it to one master examples list (alphabetically or per-genre) at the end, like we typically have with most tropes anyway.

edited 24th Nov '12 4:02:33 PM by Stratadrake

 78 Waxing Name, Sat, 24th Nov '12 9:23:34 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up][up]Who are the ones that have called making those YKTTWs? I haven't seen any of them on YKTTW at all.

Also, do we also need a Non Standard Status Effects so we can cover some of the shoehorned examples?
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Yes, please. Or at least remove the word "Standard" from the index name. This trope gets used for all Status Effects, regardless of whether they are common or unique to a game.

Splitting off a "miscellaneous" standard effects trope would be an improvement, but I think leaving room for people to link to the main trope without calling weird, game-specific effects "standard" would be better, because currently the trope name is meaningless cruft.

edited 12th Dec '12 9:36:35 AM by Kurtulmak

 
Dragon Writer
Maybe we can just call it Status Ailment? This is supposed to be only about the negative ones; positive ones go under Status Buff.

edited 12th Dec '12 10:21:20 AM by Stratadrake

 81 Waxing Name, Wed, 12th Dec '12 3:14:24 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]I second that proposal.
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Dragon Writer
Well, whatever happens IMO we need to at least eliminate the per-effect example sorting. (Since simple renaming wasn't included on the old crowner, if we want to do a PA crowner all over again here it is.)

edited 13th Dec '12 12:45:30 AM by Stratadrake

 83 Waxing Name, Thu, 13th Dec '12 8:21:29 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
Well, I think I'll be the one to do the YKTTWs for the individual Standard Status Effects or Status Ailments whatever we'll call it. I'm planning to set it up somewhat similarly to my improvement YKTTW for Stock RPG Spells in that the individual examples are better suited to the subtropes, and the main page is just about the patterns themselves.

I'll make a list of the subtropes for the various status ailments we already have here:

Additional input is welcomed.

edited 13th Dec '12 8:21:44 PM by WaxingName

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Dragon Writer
It's probably better to list those by common spell names ("Petrify", "Death", etc.) instead of the trope names.
 85 Waxing Name, Fri, 14th Dec '12 1:31:28 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]Well, we have to mention the trope names somehow, since they already exist.
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Dragon Writer
I've got a reworked description and effect list under Sandbox.Standard Status Effects. How does it look? Examples need sorting though.
Too long. Needs cutting down. If there's really that many items, then skip the descriptions and just go index—or keep the descriptions to one line, like Rule of Perception. Also, folders?

edited 15th Dec '12 1:58:14 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
Dragon Writer
Folders are part of the original problem - the page's current layout goes roughly like this:

  • Effect name
  • 50 examples

  • Effect name
  • 50 examples

  • Effect name
  • 50 examples

Use of the word "standard" is also part of the problem. You can't have a "standard" status ailment if it doesn't actually have a standard label or definition (you may or not notice but I removed the "other" folder from the sandbox for that reason) for it.

IMHO, if we are going to rename it as simply Status Ailment then we should probably also declare it an Omnipresent Trope for the RPG genre — just try to name an RPG that doesn't have at least one kind of status ailment in its combat system. (We'll wait.) And the list of names should only be used for ailments that really are common within the genre.

edited 16th Dec '12 7:01:11 AM by Stratadrake

 89 Waxing Name, Sun, 16th Dec '12 1:11:31 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]Common Status Ailments?
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 90 Native Jovian, Sun, 16th Dec '12 2:54:24 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
I would just call it Status Ailment to make it easier to use in a sentence, and to cover things like MS Saga or EarthBound that have the same effects but give them different names. I also think we should cover things from the effect side, rather than what they're called, for the same reason.

Here's what I think we should cover:
  • Continually loses HP (poison, plague, venom)
  • Cannot act (paralysis, stop, petrify, sleep)
  • Cannot use melee/basic attacks (blind)
  • Cannot use magic/special attacks (silence)
  • Interface Screw, player loses control of character (berserk, confusion, charm)
  • Lowers stats (curse, polymorph, slow)
  • One-Hit KO, either immediately or on a timer (death/death sentence, petrify)
  • Other/Misc (zombie, fear)
  • Two or more of the above

I think that covers the vast majority of cases. The occasional additions or exceptions to those can be handled in individual examples.
 91 Another Duck, Sun, 16th Dec '12 9:05:19 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
[up]Something very close to that, yes.

However, that's not Interface Screw. That trope is when your controls are messed with, not your control of the character. It's like calling a Cut Scene an Interface Screw, because you don't have control over your character then.
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Dragon Writer
I also think we should cover things from the effect side, rather than what they're called, for the same reason.
But the labelling of status effects is a trope, too. I would like to give a bit of both, really, including effects and common names.
 93 Another Duck, Sun, 16th Dec '12 10:35:23 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Overall, I think the effects are used more than their names, though. I don't see a game designer thinking about adding an effect called "poison", and then deciding what it does. It happens, sure, but not as standard. However, I think it does vary with which effect. To take one example, I think "berserk" is more often thought up as a named concept, and then fleshed out to a mechanic.

The main thing is that effects can be grouped by how similar the mechanics are, while names are discrete entities, and can't be grouped as such.
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 94 Native Jovian, Mon, 17th Dec '12 9:26:50 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
[up][up][up]I meant Interface Screw or you lose control of the character. I was thinking about "confusion" effects that randomize the directional pad input (so pressing up makes your character go left, for example) and the like.

[up][up]Sure, we'd still include common labels, but it would be along the lines of "HP Drain: commonly called 'poison', you lose a small amount of HP per turn or period of time" rather than "Poison: drains small amounts of HP per turn, sometimes called other things".
 95 Waxing Name, Mon, 17th Dec '12 10:49:42 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]That's an even better idea.

We already have Damage Over Time, though, so we have one of those covered. Is that what we'll do then?
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 96 Another Duck, Tue, 18th Dec '12 3:55:28 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
[up][up]Fair enough. I'm not sure I see it as the same thing, though. Related, but not the same. It probably depends on how fine grains we use in the list.
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Dragon Writer
I gave the sandbox another polish. Hmm ... should I try using a table format instead of a list?
 98 Native Jovian, Tue, 18th Dec '12 8:56:39 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
I think having two lists, one for effect descriptions and one for common effect names, makes the page way too long. I could see a table working, though.
Still too long. I think when you start getting into that much detail, the page really wants to be an index.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Perhaps you should switch zombie to a more general 'creature type change.' I know the zombie thing from...FF whatever? is the example most people think of but I'm pretty sure I've seen that sort of thing elsewhere. For example, I think Disgaea 2 had maps with special status effects that would do weird things like turn your character into a dragon. Other games might have things that change your creature type/element and make your vulnerabilities and whatnot change.

edited 18th Dec '12 10:25:14 PM by Arha

Page Action: Standard Status Effects
2nd Sep '11 1:18:23 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
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