I think there is broad agreement, actually. Both of the options in the positives suggest some sort of splitting and using the current page for an index. The difference seems to be exactly what subtropes we'd like to make out of the current page.

It looks like both of the positive options are for some variety of hard split (and my sadly unloved option... *sniff*). But the problem is that it seems folks are overall split as to what variety of hard split is appropriate.

I think that the problem comes down to whether we want to make the hard split based on what each ailment is called or based on what each ailment actually does. (And, to give my own claim one last gasp of air, just how granular we want to be about it).

The real catch is that it seems that there seems to be very few that actually prefer one over the other.

Looks like a fair assessment to me.

I think splitting subtropes off from this page can be done gradually, and there's no need to hurry. The page isn't terrible, but it's getting long and cumbersome to navigate. It would even be possible to split off only the major types, and leave the less common ones on the page.

Anyway, since it's about game mechanics, it would make more sense to split it up based on the actual effect, rather than what it's dressed up to look like. Personally I like:

• Damage Over Time - When it causes your health to degrade.
• Action Lockdown - You can't act at all, such as stop, stun, sleep, etc.
• Ability Lockdown - Only certain abilities are locked or left available, like silence, root, and in some cases, berserk.
• Stat Reduction - Blind, slow, lower power, etc.
• Time Delayed Effect - Anything that takes time before it actually takes effect. Usually death or something equally nasty, but can overlap.
• Forced Action - Character acts on his own, without your input, like berserk, fear*
  which sometimes is Action Lockdown instead
  , charm, or confusion.

• Transformation - This is essentially a bundled Stat Reduction, Ability Lockdown, and Baleful Polymorph package (though not necessarily all of them). I'm not sure it requires its own page, since it's really more of a collection of effects/tropes.

I'm not sure Instant Death attacks should be under the same topic, though. It's not a status, but a single-use ability.

As a side note, I find it interesting that the Status Buff page is rather short comparatively.

edited 4th Jun '12 11:28:44 PM by Feather7603

I think it's because Status Buff is actually the inverse of Stat Reduction - it raises stats instead of lowering them. It's not often that you see a buff do more than that, unless you count curing status ailments as a buff. Although technically they are (since they improve your character), as is in-game healing.

Do we already have a trope for Ability Damage or Ability Drain?

What's the difference between Stat Reduction and Ability Drain? I don't think there's much at all.

Mostly the fact that I didn't see Stat Reduction listed in the list?

(Also that Ability Damage/Drain is somewhat preexisting from DnD.)

I think nearly every single item on Standard Status Effects is preexisting from Dungeons & Dragons. There's a reason that said page is listed on Role-Playing Game under the "tropes commonly found" section.

...And now, the votes have sunk every option below the 2:1 barrier. I think calling attention to the crowner backfired.

I wonder if that is because people vote down the specific split choices they don't like, but still prefer a split over no action.

I like the new option of YKTTW'ing all these new subtropes, then moving the examples off the current page as they launch. I have no problem taking one or two of them.

How is that different from Native Jovian's proposal?

It's not necessarily the same trope division that's made. The idea is more or less the same in several suggestions, though.

Jovian's suggestion is the closest to mine, but I used a different (more general) grouping for some. More specifically, from post #29:

• Action Randomizer and Face Heel Effect are both about taking control away from the player, so I put them in the same. The difference is what AI the character uses, but I don't think that's enough for separate pages.
• Ability Lockout and Ability Lockin are two sides of the same coin. They're both about disabling part of your skill repertoire.
• Reduced Accuracy is just a specific Stat Reduction. On a technical level, it doesn't always work like that*
  for instance, it can add a straight 75% miss chance, with no regard for anything else, so it affects 100% hit attacks just as much as accuracy-based attacks
  , but the effect is the same.

@63 I was specifically asking about what Dark Confidant had in mind. Yours actually reminds me much of what I had proposed.

I'm not entirely sure what was asked...

I'm a bit confused, actually, now. :P.

I'm not so sure how the proposals differ from one another. I'm of the opinion that we use the current page as an exampleless index after creating YKTTW's for the various subpages / different status ailments.

Which proposal(-s) this falls under, I am not sure.

edited 5th Jun '12 1:12:20 PM by DarkConfidant

Okay, near as I can tell (admittedly, the crowner could be better worded):

Native Jovian proposed dividing the different status ailments into pages based on what they were called. There would be a page for poison, a page for blindness, a page for paralysis, and so on.

I proposed dividing the different status ailments into three broad categories - Encroaching Death (direct threat of losing all your health), Action Prevention (prevents the full range of available abilities from being used), and Stat Reduction (for anything taht reduces stats below their usual value).

Muninn proposed dividing the different status ailments into more granular categories than what I proposed.

I'm not sure what the newest option on the poll actually represents. Near as I can tell, it's a suggestion of what to do once we actually settle on how to split the page.

I agree with the third of these options - split based on what the status ailments do, and use the finer categorization. I think it's more useful to list it that way than to have a status effect called 'disease' but that works differently in many different games.

I'm still of the belief that the different status effects are similar enough that they could all get lumped into three categories. That said, I'm fine with using the more granular categories based on effect. It might feel like hair-splitting, but at least it makes consistent sense.

Calling crowner: YKTTW the subtropes and move the examples off the page as they launch.

So... how are we splitting this up?

edited 16th Jul '12 9:47:55 AM by ccoa

I assume we're splitting based on the folders.

That lost in the crowner, actually.

Looks like I missed that. Anyway, the winning option says that we should make pages based on specific status effects. So, does that mean we make a page for poison and one for paralysis?

Maybe? Would other "slip damage" effects fit on there, like burn from Pokemon?

It seems everything thought this needed split, but no one agreed how.

^ Pokemon's "burn" status being a combination of Damage Over Time + Attack reduction. We do have that one at least (not always a status effect, but frequently overlaps)....