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Why do people want to have children?
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Why do people want to have children?:

 501 Gabrael, Sat, 29th Sep '12 11:37:12 PM Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
A Polar Bear Named Gabrael
That doesn't stop some:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/World-s-Oldest-Mother-Adriana-Iliescu-72-Wants-Second-Child-166458.shtml

I personally think it's stupid and insanely selfish, just as it is stupid and selfish to have children before you're 20ish (depends on the person). But that is not my judgement call.
 502 joeyjojo, Sat, 29th Sep '12 11:53:54 PM from The Magic Land Of Oz Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Storm the bastille!
Umm... I know this sound odd but who's judgement call is it?

edited 29th Sep '12 11:54:18 PM by joeyjojo

Mn Hovercraft st plen de nguills

 503 Deviant Braeburn, Sat, 29th Sep '12 11:55:56 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up][up]

Its rather reckless, but I wouldn't say selfish.

This woman clearly believe she is capable of having a second child. Whether she is or not is something we can only speculate about.

And even if she isn't the article mentions that the children will be provided for when the mother's time comes, both financially and in terms of someone to act as her guardian and substitute parent.

[up] Good question, but I doubt there's a good answer.

edited 30th Sep '12 11:25:29 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 504 Joesolo, Sun, 30th Sep '12 7:34:38 AM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'd agree with reckless. it's really not safe for her or the child.
I am going to shove the sunshine so far up where the sun don't shine that you will vomit nothing but warm summer days -Belkar
 505 Gabrael, Sun, 30th Sep '12 11:18:00 AM Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
A Polar Bear Named Gabrael
I call it selfish because consider this, even if the woman is in great health, she's 72 her daughter is 5. When the child is 15 she'll be 82. When the daughter is 20, 87. She is going to have to be very careful and work really hard to live the extra years to see her daughter hit full adulthood, never mind the extra work to maintain her health to the quality of remaining primary care giver. If she can do that great. But the cost if she fails, especially since she is the only parent, is much higher to both herself and the child as compared to say, someone who waits until they are 45 to have kids.

@ Joey, it's the judgement call of the people having the baby. Some people can make it work regardless of how it looks on the outside. All cases are their own world. But it is something to educate and be aware of.
 506 Deboss, Sun, 30th Sep '12 2:36:26 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Only up until a certain point. Time has a way of catching up to you in that regard.

Adoption takes care of that end, unless you're so old that you're about to die within a few years.
I don't think I would want to have children for the simple reason that taking care of another human being takes monumental responsibility. Eventually those kids are going to grow up into adults themselves with their own families, and the greatest worry in a parents' mind is if they raised them right. Imagine the shame one can feel when the person they raised becomes a vagrant, thief, rapist, or killer (thinking of the movie theater shooter).

 
 508 Deviant Braeburn, Sun, 30th Sep '12 10:56:50 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up]

That's a risk we may have to live with.

Still sometimes one shouldn't worry about the "what ifs".

edited 30th Sep '12 10:57:05 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

Just Me
Many women are nurturing people by nature
And that's exactly what we're doing wrong. We're saying things like this. Not only is it completely false, it also puts a lot of social pressure on women to be mothers despite what they really want to do with their lives.

Stop saying things like this. And stop directing them specifically at women.

Imagine the shame one can feel when the person they raised becomes a vagrant, thief, rapist, or killer (thinking of the movie theater shooter).
That's a risk we may have to live with
Not anymore. We have the solution.
I'll think of one later
 510 Deviant Braeburn, Mon, 1st Oct '12 12:49:04 AM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up]

...And that solution is?
Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

Just Me
Not making new humans. I thought it was obvious, considering the subject we're talking about :)
I'll think of one later
 512 Deviant Braeburn, Mon, 1st Oct '12 1:19:48 AM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up]

Why wouldn't we make new humans?
Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 513 Zersk, Mon, 1st Oct '12 1:30:52 AM from Columbia District, BNA
o-o
Plus you know society would sort of collapse in like two decades if that happened since there'd by no new people to (a) take up the jobs of the retirees and (b) take care of the old people.

And plus some people just like kids. Crazy, huh? Must be that "biological and evolutionary drive" thing.
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
 514 Deviant Braeburn, Mon, 1st Oct '12 1:41:55 AM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up]

Maternal bonds and all that noise.

I'll never understand it.

The being said, your absolutely right. Species that don't create offspring usually wind up extinct.

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

Just Me
Why wouldn't we make new humans?
I don't understand what lead to this question.

Let me summaries our exchange above: If I don't have kids there is zero chance that my kids will become deranged criminals like mass shooters or rapist.

Plus you know society would sort of collapse in like two decades if that happened since there'd by no new people to (a) take up the jobs of the retirees and (b) take care of the old people.
You think that if you won't have kids it will suddenly cause everyone else to follow suit? That's unlikely. I see no danger of society collapsing due to people deciding not to have kids.

Must be that "biological and evolutionary drive" thing
Total bull. People in modern society having kids has very little to do with our instincts and more to do with our social norms, which are completely arbitrary.

If our desire to have kids was so deterministic, as you seem to imply it is, then I wouldn't be able to have my opinion on the subject.
I'll think of one later
 516 Cassie, Mon, 1st Oct '12 5:54:32 AM from Malaysia, but where?
The armored raven
I would not tolerate another derail such as this, let alone the mods. We're not going to veer off into 'Future offsprings will be suicidal or criminally insane' territory again.
What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...
Total bull. People in modern society having kids has very little to do with our instincts and more to do with our social norms, which are completely arbitrary. If our desire to have kids was so deterministic, as you seem to imply it is, then I wouldn't be able to have my opinion on the subject.

Where do you think those social norms come from? They're not arbitrary at all, they're a result of our biological need to reproduce. Any species that didn't have a strong inclination to propagate itself wouldn't last long. There's no reason to think that our biological drives and instincts just disappeared as soon as we started building fires and wearing clothes.

That's not to say we're slaves to our instincts, because we're sapient creatures capable of higher reasoning. But we're still animals, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise.

 518 0dd 1, Mon, 1st Oct '12 6:02:11 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that
I'm with Cassie. That discussion led into some pretty despairing territory before the mods came in and put the kibosh on it.
Insert witty and clever quip here.

My page, as the database hates my handle.

My music.
I'm an Irene!
Society =/= Every possible opinion.

Society is the majority opinion.

And as a society, we do not want to die out by not having kids. I mean, really.

Of course some don't want to have 'em. That's fine. Your call.

But yeah, I'm sorry, but I won't avoid having a kid because I think they could go crazy. I'll avoid it for a legitimate reason that's realistic enough, like I couldn't handle taking care of a kid. Something that's not a severe future prediction that can't be backed up whatsoever with facts.

Let's go with facts; Anybody could become anybody after born. It's our job as parents to teach them to be productive members of society, as well as good people as is. Not everybody can handle this, of course. That's fine.

But we don't get anywhere by never having children. That doesn't solve a single problem. Most of those "problems" that you're derailing with can be solved with good teaching, better parenting, and therapy. It doesn't help to basically "kill" any hope of that happening. We didn't get better at life via never having more children. We're grown as people by having more and learning new things. That's how it's always worked.

In fact, it was way worse back then, and it has gotten better, but only because we didn't basically make the race extinct. Your solution, frankly, does not solve anything. It's essentially a slow and non-painful way to murder the entire race, by never continuing it.
 520 Fighteer, Mon, 1st Oct '12 6:53:40 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
[up] Quite. The "never have kids because they might be unhappy" idea is the equivalent of never going outside because you might get rained on. Life happens and you don't do your hypothetical future children any favors by denying it to them.
Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 521 Gabrael, Mon, 1st Oct '12 7:14:56 PM Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
A Polar Bear Named Gabrael
Plus we have to remember that children have free will.

All of us, regardess of how good, bad, or in between our childhoods made the choice to either retain, modify, or reject our conditioning.

My son is already making his choices now. I just hope I can be a good enough teacher in my example as well as lessons that he will see the merit behind doing good over being negatively selfish.
 522 joeyjojo, Mon, 1st Oct '12 9:06:25 PM from The Magic Land Of Oz Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Storm the bastille!
[up]Just make sure he doesn't turn into a serial killer and you should do all rightgrin
Mn Hovercraft st plen de nguills

 523 Enzeru, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 9:16:47 PM from Orlando, FL χಠ♥
icon by implodingoracle
This thread's still going? Is there even anyone who's interested in the title question anymore? It just seems like we're going around in circles trying to defend our views on the matter.

Stop saying things like this. And stop directing them specifically at women.

Don't tell me what to do. Many women want to have kids, many don't (this applies to men too, but the linked article focused on mothers, and like it or not, we seem to be focusing more on mothers and children, not fathers and children). I've never come across any mother that I knew regretted having kids or felt they were being held back.

I'm not saying there aren't plenty out there, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with feeling that way, but I don't think it's a majority opinion.

 525 Fighteer, Thu, 4th Oct '12 6:56:42 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
With Mod Hat On
As far as I'm concerned, this thread has outlived whatever meager value it may have had. And I'm going to add that if you hold the opinion that life sucks so badly that the human race should extinguish itself, keep it to yourself, or seek counseling, or whatever. Do not make topics about it.

edited 4th Oct '12 6:57:06 AM by Fighteer

Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
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