On HIV and Blood Donation

Sorry USAF was meant for Joey Jo Jo in reply to his comment in hacking off ones own arm but you ninja'd me Was just meant as a brief derail to lighten the mood a little I apologize for any confusion.

I'd agree. I've had look at AN registration form it just asks 'Are you are involved in high risk sexual practices that may increase your exposure to sexual diseases? ' without going into too much detail. And as seen in the article I posted they've been actively trying to recruit young gay and bi guys so I'm guessing they're working with more relaxed rules.

edited 24th Aug '11 7:21:34 PM by PiccoloNo92

Oh. Ok. I thought it was a reply to my statement. I was like, what, is this a Humans Are Morons argument? What a strange way to make it. But never mind...

Well I do have my own moronic moments but that wasn't one of them. Not that I am prone to arguing things in an odd way at all

edited 24th Aug '11 7:24:15 PM by PiccoloNo92

Right... well, what do you think of the argument I made?

Try checking my reply again and I amended it to give an answer to your position. But in short; perfectly valid from a utilitarian point of view but I'm more of a Kantian ethicist so even though it is a difficult position I may have to stick to my principles. Though should end it there as it could go way off topic unless you can think of a good way to keep it semi-relevant.

You asked why gay people just don't just lie and I gave a personal reason why I think we shouldn't. Feel free to disagree and challenge it but as off now I shall be sticking to it.

edited 24th Aug '11 7:34:57 PM by PiccoloNo92

I guess we have to agree to disagree, then. I'm all for principles zealotry (guilty as charged—for hypocrisy, too—in the capital punishment debate), but here I think that pride < life. Sure, I'm not gay, but it's not so alien a mindsight that I don't understand, at least on some level, what it must be like, just like I understand, on some level, what racism must be like to live with. Doesn't mean I approve of saying "I am who I am and you can't change that!" while someone bleeds to death...

We can both agree on that then Sorry if the whole "you don't know what it feels like thing" came across as condescending and militaristic. It's just a personal berserk button when it's suggested that being gay is something you should hide and my comment seems poorly argued at best and childish and petty at worst now looking back at it.

But I stand by my point that hiding isn't the way to change things and I am for one a terrible liar so it certainly wouldn't be a viable option for me

edited 24th Aug '11 7:40:51 PM by PiccoloNo92

Of course it isn't a way to change things. But who says you can't go crusading by day and donating blood... well, still by day, I guess; I doubt they're open at night? I mean, hell, it's not like they're gonna find out, the blood is already lost in a sea of packaged little bags of the stuff, and if you only get one in before they peg you as "cannot donate," so what? That's probably a life saved.

At the very least, you prove the fools wrong: gays are plenty morally just. This is one of those civil disobedience things I think is fine, because, done properly, you're not going to hurt yourself doing it (ignore that needle poking you in the arm...).

The bloody accident hypothetical is frivilous, I'm pretty sure that in an acute emergency the doctors don't care where the blood comes from.

And I don't condone lying in medical forms, even on bullshit control questions. The personel have to trust the patient's word, and lying puts lives at risk.

This. To me it also just feels inherently wrong to lie in such a situation even if I'm trying to get around an idiotic law.

That said after I do more research about them I may register with Anthony Nolan to see if they really don't discriminate in such a way. That way I can donate to a just as worthwhile cause where there is an even greater need for donors.

Also does anyone know how long on average (if there is an average length) the blood donation process takes? Because I have yet to have sex with another guy so I should still be eligible to donate. Only problem is I'm going to university in a month and that possibly only leaves a limited window for me to do so... If I'm lucky Thing is I only found out about the ban a few months ago and I just assumed that I'd have more time to donate than I realised =/

edited 25th Aug '11 1:55:35 PM by PiccoloNo92

Well, where I am you can just ring up the Blood Bank and get an appointment to give blood within a few days.

They also have blood donation vans that drive around and set up camp in parking lots and stuff. So it shouldn't be too difficult.

Well I haven't seen any blood vans around my area but I'll keep a look out

edited 25th Aug '11 5:26:32 PM by PiccoloNo92

Well, the law exists to prevent people anyone from getting a disease through blood transfer. If you don't actually have any diseases (and I should think you'd know), you are following the spirit (if not the intent) of the law...

Donating blood, for me, is like serving in the military. You want to do it? Fine, if you're qualified, I think you should be able to dive right in. Artificial "qualifications" are abhorrent, in this regard, to me...

You know you've got blood tests to determine if you can serve right?

I'd be surprised if we didn't. I also said "if you're qualified." If you have a disease and know it, by god, don't even think about trying this. If not, though, you're only one of many the law is screwing over for no good reason, and the law in this case is letting people who might need that blood die to do it.

how would they know if they have got the disease? you can never be sure

@USAF: I knew a guy who couldn't enlist because of hi rs; there are all kinds of things that could hold you back. kind makes you wonder when they're going to do when DADT is officially repealed; I don't envy the docs at MEPS.

Go to the doctor and get tested...?

@Kino,

I personally hate Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I think that anyone who wants to serve should be able to serve, gay, female, straight, or male. We should have made accommodations for those people to all serve together in the first place.

edited 25th Aug '11 5:42:34 PM by USAF713

@USAF: It's fine the way it was, the only thing they needed to modify was the section that made it OK to discharge someone if their leadership found out that they were gay. No point in getting rid of a good guy because you find pic of him and his bf.

But that's a different story.

Fine in practice, but wrong on principle, just like this is wrong on principle. Was it fine as a transitional thing? Sure. But they weren't working towards transition, and don't appear to be now. Just like here, the idea that gays can't give blood isn't temporary in the slightest. It's meant to be a permanent fixture, and that is unacceptable.

edited 26th Aug '11 2:07:13 PM by USAF713

@USAF:The former system worked fine, but apparently the powers that be decided to turn the military into a social experiment. the military isn't about what's nice for you it's about what's effective and benefits he completion of the mission. Keeping your mouth shut and doing your job works well in areas other than the military.

Like I said; it's another topic.

edited 25th Aug '11 5:53:55 PM by Kino

Challenge accepted.

My question is, why don't gay people just not say anything...? I mean, sure, the law is retarded, but if you suck it up, you could save lives. I think life > pride, myself...

Um, because you can be sued or arrested for it if they find out you lied on the form? There's a story about a Canadian guy who got arrested I think....but in his case, he sent an anonymous email telling them that they tracked the IP of and charged him.

I don't think gay people should be expected to risk that so they can volunteer to donate.

edited 26th Aug '11 2:47:36 PM by occono

Neither do I, since I'd love to kill this law. But blood donations save lives, so the more healthy gay people who are restricted for artificially stupid reasons that donate, the more lives get saved...

That kinda does make sense, in the traditional sense of civil dissobediance. One activist I know annually donates blood, but is honest on the form and has his blood rejected.