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Repairing TheTroper critique Club .:

Element of love
As many of you know the Trope critique club has an issue. It gets much more works that need to be readen than actual people that are able/willing to critique troper's works.

I know you guys enjoy the freedom I hate rules as much as you do.but when the system fails rules need to be put. This is a nesesity as there is a lot of potential for this that is being wasted. We are tv tropes after all.

For this reason I call a brainstorming session and an eventual crowner for new rules on the thread.

my suggestion

Now this is my suggestion I don't claim in anyway that this is the best idea. In fact I am sure you guys will polish or make even better ideas.

Credit system

I suggest a credit system.You will need to spend credits to get critiques and critique yourself to earn credits. It would have the following rules:

  1. Easier to spend credits harder than earning them. ex you spend 3 credits for getting a critique.But you only earn 1 credit for critiquing the same work.
  2. The value on the work would depend on the number of words. Ex 300 words= 1 credit.
  3. You get doble credits for criquing ignored works (3 months or more)
  4. Every critique gets at least 1 credit. But If the author liked your critique he can give you part of his credits.
  5. Long and well tough critiques can get a x1.5 multiplier in credits. Short and vage critiques(one liners) get a x.5 penalty, of the ammount of credits they would normally earn for that work.
  6. More than one people can critique the same work.Cloning critiques is prohibited.
  7. Relies on honesty to count credits. If people abuse the system they lose credits.Constant abuse and they get ignored until they get 10 credits (to pay their right to particapate again).

edited 17th Aug '11 10:51:41 AM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
Also known as Katz
This isn't a bad idea, but are you volunteering to moderate this system? Because it sounds complicated; are you going to retroactively add up peoples' totals? Are you going to count things reviewed elsewhere? How are you going to penalize people who break the rules? Etc.

 3 Oh So Into Cats, Wed, 17th Aug '11 10:37:26 AM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
This is pretty much exactly like Critique Circle. Now, it works fine there, but I think here it would be extremely difficult to enact somewhere as informal as TV tropes.

I think it might be a good idea to make a dedicated-beta-reader-finder thread though.

edited 17th Aug '11 10:39:30 AM by OhSoIntoCats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
Element of love
[up][up]Thanks a lot! now to answer your questions

are you volunteering to moderate this system?

If nessesary yes. But my idea is a system that functions with the less (if any)amount of moderation possible

Because it sounds complicated;

Not really, don't worry.It looks complicated for all the subrules put to stop abuse. It's just pur capitalistic system simplified. It's basically buying/spending tongue like buying a candy bar.

Are you going to retroactively add up peoples' totals?

I am thinkig on either relying on honesty or moderating the totals in a google document for public acsses and closed to edition except for a few trusted people.

Are you going to count things reviewed elsewhere?

Nope, that would hurt the system unfortunatelysad. This could be easily abused.Only site reviews.

How are you going to penalize people who break the rules? Etc.

I want to rely if possible in honesty.If not we may need to rely on arbiters

Minor offenses lose credits (ex lying in the amount of credits). Major offenders/people with no credits get ignored until they pay pack their right to post again. Example 25 credits

edited 17th Aug '11 10:54:42 AM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
Also known as Katz
It's not complicated to understand; it's complicated to implement because nobody gains anything by keeping up their end of it. You realize that we can't even make people abide by the "review the thing above you" rule, right? No one has any incentive to keep track of their own points when they could just post their stuff regardless of their point total.

In other words, you've created a Prisoner's Dilemma.

edited 17th Aug '11 11:31:56 AM by jewelleddragon

 6 Ronka 87, Wed, 17th Aug '11 11:43:28 AM from the mouth of madness.
Maid of Win
The system sounds... complicated, and it still fails to address certain issues. For instance, fanfiction critique is much harder to get, because fewer people will know the work the fic is based on, and so it will remain ignored. The amount of calculation involved makes me believe the system will be fraught with mistakes, even if no one's trying to cheat.

I have a suggestion for the critique club (unrelated to the credit system). I've noticed some people asking for reviews of their works, but not providing any info on the work itself. Is it a short story or a novel? Fanfic or original? 300 words or 300, 000? What's the genre? What's the story? The suggestion, and it's really simple, is to make it mandatory or strongly encouraged to provide a short synopsis that answers some of these questions, so reviewers will have a better idea of what they're getting into. It would be less important for shorter things posted in the thread itself; I'm mainly thinking of longer works people post off site— it seems ridiculous to me to ask strangers to read and critique your stuff if you aren't even willing to give them an idea of what it's about.
Thanks for the all fish!
Element of love
[up][up]yell is just an idea. It is a brainstorming sesion after all.[up]sounds like it could work
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
 8 Oh So Into Cats, Wed, 17th Aug '11 12:09:27 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up][up]That's why I think we should have a dedicated beta reader thread. People would post a short synopsis (maybe 250 words) of what they're writing, what kind of writing it is, etc, and people could contact each other to see if they were interested in going over the whole thing but don't want to post a thread. Yeah a lot of people hook up with writing friends, but a lot of times friends have different styles and are not necessarily interested in the sort of thing you're writing...

And then it might be an idea to put a word limit on the excerpts you can put in the critique thread. If it's any longer than a certain word count, it should look for a beta in the beta thread.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
Also known as Katz
I started a thread called, I think, Full-Length Reviews or something like that a while back; may have been nuked in a forum purge. It got a few participants but didn't last very long.

 10 Oh So Into Cats, Wed, 17th Aug '11 12:49:05 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Well, I'm guessing that it'd likely be slow-moving.

Maybe it should be a sticky?

edited 17th Aug '11 12:52:52 PM by OhSoIntoCats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
Remember
If it isn't done beforehand, I'll probably start a beta reader thread in three hours or so, when I get back from the water park I am currently at. I think I have some decent ideas on how to keep it organized, but we'll see what happens in three hours.
Run, you clever boy.
Element of love
I like the idea. Much easier than mine.

But I still think we need a word limit. Some reviewers can get scared of reading a +5000 words fic

edited 17th Aug '11 1:44:28 PM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
 13 Oh So Into Cats, Wed, 17th Aug '11 1:50:52 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Maybe the word limit for the critique club could be like 3, 000 words. A requirement for the beta reader thread should be to post an approximate word count, so that readers know what they're getting into.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 14 chihuahua 0, Wed, 17th Aug '11 2:21:01 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
We could try to find an outside program that we can use to keep track of works and what ones need critiquing, but I don't know how that would work.

 15 Mr AHR, Wed, 17th Aug '11 2:34:36 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
That sounds a tad elaborate.
 16 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:38:57 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
Here's my suggestion; I call it "Uncle Drunkie's Writer/Critic Dating Service". Users go through several steps to participate:

  • 1: Post a short (two paragraph) synopsis of the work in question in the nascent "Dating Service" tread.
  • 2: Wait.

Meanwhile, the would-be critics do the following...

  • 1: Read through all the synopses until they find one that interests them.
  • 2: PM the writer, let them know they have a critic who's interested.

Then the writer and the critic exchange stuff in whatever way suits them best (P Ms, disposable emails, chat, etc.). If the relationship works out, great. If not, Writer and Critic go their separate ways.

RULES:

  • Writers are allowed one synopsis per thread page. Anything more is spamming.
  • Writers are not to PM critics unless a prior arrangement has been made. Critics decide whether or not they wish to read a writer's materal.
  • No posts other than writer synopses.*
  • Keep your synopsis short; two midsize paragraphs at most. The goal here is to interest someone in your work, not tell them all about it.

Sound good?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 17 USAF713, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:42:05 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
[up] Drunk, you're brilliant!

I would suggest we might take it up with Fast Eddie to see if someone could be like in the TRS/IP threads, a mod just for this. That way the preexisting mods aren't bogged down trying to keep track of this and all the other threads...
I am now known as Flyboy.
 18 Merlo, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:44:14 PM from the masochist chamber
*hrrrrrk*
That wouldn't replace the current thread, right? It'd coexist with it? Because I'd feel kinda silly looking for betas for longer works when most of the stuff I need help with at the moment are short scenes/oneshots, or "can you look at these 4-5 paragraphs and tell me if they sound weird".
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...
 19 USAF713, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:46:49 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Perhaps we should say, "if you've got something really long, make your own thread for it" and then give a word count guideline for what is "really long" so this doesn't get cluttered with those...

edited 17th Aug '11 5:47:36 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 20 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:47:02 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
@USAF: I'll ask the Mighty Maddie when she comes on.

@Merlo: I'd start a new thread; there are people that prefer the way Troper Critique Club works now and there's no reason to step on their toes.

EDIT: We needn't do either of those things. That kind of stuff can be worked out with an individual critic, or put in your synopsis. Though what kind of critic you want would be a good thing to point out.

Okay, I'll make the thread and come up with a standard form that people can use to make their requests.

edited 17th Aug '11 5:48:49 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 21 USAF713, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:47:58 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
[up] How does the TCC work now? I've only glanced at it...

edited 17th Aug '11 6:02:59 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 22 Mr AHR, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:50:02 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
I think it's a good idea, but I don't think it will work long term. Too elaborate. No real way of knowing who got critted, and if the thread is working.
 23 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:53:29 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
@AHR: If it's not working, people will stop posting in it. If it is working, people will keep posting in it.

No way to know until we try.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 24 Mr AHR, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:56:26 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
All right, I'm willing to give it a whirl.
 25 USAF713, Wed, 17th Aug '11 5:57:29 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Indeed. I could probably devote time to critique some one-shots, but I'm starting my own work soon—I'm posting it here, too, hopefully in its own thread—so I might not be able to devote time to long-term projects. A pity, too, because I love to help others worldbuild and rewrite and whatnot...

edited 17th Aug '11 5:57:55 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
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