Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

From what I read, there was one chavista casualty and two opposing students.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Yes, that would be about right.

Sadly, the problem here is that all national channels are not reporting the protests, as if they had never happened, and the one that did, NTN24 which is an international news channel (By the way, I can't access the channel page too, no thought of who's fault it is), was taken out yesterday by order of the Venezuelan Government. So we are forced to post any news of the protests by twitter and social media.

This means of course, that any international news (like Reuters) cannot just take the news posted at twitter as truth, and use any of the bs the government makes our national channels say.

edited 13th Feb '14 12:37:30 PM by eligram

@Stripes: The very fact that the goverment is not allowing any kind of news channel, be it national or international, to cover the event, undermines your very point.

Students do not have weapons. Pro Chavez groups do. Just because the socialist movement sounds pretty on paper, does not mean it's right. So there is no excuse to keep believing the bs that the goverment feeds the outside world.

Sometimes I do not get people. This whole generation is all about "sticking it to the man, do not believe the lies that they tell you over the news". But when it is about OTHER countries, sure, let's just repeat like parrots that Venezuela is doing fine economically, that Caracas isn't one of the most violent cities in the world! Why? Well, the national goverment told the press! Of course its true!!

I repeat, dying like pigs, not just in the city, there's at least five dead in other states, does not mean this is a peaceful goverment. The only dead I have seen, with my EYES, not with sloppy news coverage, are students, including that one chavista. Plus, gotta wonder, how can three people die in a shootout that was started by pro chavistas? Hm? How can that be our fault if this was just another peacefull protest?

Think before you post.

Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

And another thing:

We don't even have paper. Many newspaper are going broke because of that, and every single news channel has been bought by the goverment. How's that for a democracy?

Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Because the usual activist who would protest in other cases are left-leaning, and since Venezuela is under a leftist regime, they think every problem is a media overreaction or just an attempt to make the left look bad.

Don't get me wrong: I'm liberal, at least, for US standards, but while I do believe the US needs a stronger left movement, liberals can be often as hypocritical as the conservatives they attack so much. They're not as crazy, though.

It is a bad combination of being too right-of-the-center for the left to express simpathy, but also too foreign and non-white to receive at least some consideration from the right.

edited 13th Feb '14 5:57:50 PM by Anthony_H

Ok, so now they blocked any videos and images from showing in twitter, and we can expect them saying there's no oppression and try to put the blame in the Opposition, the Empire or whatever shit they feel like blaming for this.

It just pisses me off that they actually think they can get away with this.

Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs)

Guilty as charged. While oppositor, I was one of those who considered it to be an "illiberal democracy", a "diseased democracy" or a "dictablanda" (you gotta admit it's a good pun), not a real dictatorship (although increasingly more so). In hindsight I should not have been so lenient in terms. I'm not sure at what point over the last 15 years it should be considered to have "started" being a dictatorship, but what's certain is that that's what's been for quite a while.

Twitter has started giving me problems in general, too, and a bunch of people have said so as well.

A couple things: The dead chavist was not a student, he was a policeman and member of one of those officialist gangs. Also Leopoldo does have a restraining order on him, but hasn't been taken into custody yet. It's been a whole day so they were probably trying to intimidate him into leaving the country or something.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

Wasn't Pinochet the one who made up the term "dictablanda"? It was in a rather different context.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

I think he was, yes. Dunno about the context, but I hear it used the most as not-very-democratic-democracy, and in reference to Alberto Fujimori's regime.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

Yups, twitter not working for photos and video. When they actually have to start doing that things are getting serious.

Right now there is apparently some trouble on the Trigal of my city Valencia... a young woman apparently has been shot with 'perdigones' ... is that buckshot? I don't know... the tweets are a bit confusing on whenever she was killed. There are apparently a lot of fires close to a gas pump.

If I'm sure of something it's that I'm not sure of anything.

I think the term is scattershot, might have to recheck.

Things are certainly getting serious, "something is going to happen" happened.

A bunch of reds have also shown up on CÑN for interviews, that is, with no complascent interviewers from VTV. That's a novelty. From what I've heard they got argumentally thrashed.

edited 13th Feb '14 10:35:08 PM by stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

Twitter is going crazy right now with the situation on the Trigal... apparently there are two young men dead. The rumors going around that one was killed by scattershot and the other beaten to death. There is also the woman that was rumored killed there. Granted, this is a twitter panic unlike anything I've seen before but still...

Also, tons of cars and even a house are rumored being burned by the National Guard with photos of the fires circling around twitter. Using TOR to be able to look at twitter properly.

If I'm sure of something it's that I'm not sure of anything.

Are there any websites/blogs/news sites that have a rolling update of this situation? Apart from this thread of course :)

This is the only Tumblr I know that's been following it very closely.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Do you guys have any idea how to make this go out even further? People are posting on 9gag, twitter, everything. Any ideas?

Edit: as an addeddum, Rihanna and Jared Leto have posted their support on twitter. Well, that's at least something. But we need to expand.

edited 14th Feb '14 2:44:02 PM by Polarity

Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/noticias/tecnologia/cantv-niega-estar-involucrado-en-bloqueo-a-imagene.aspx Cantv denies blocking anything from twitter.

Twitter confirms the goverment is blocking their services http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2014/02/14/twitter-informa-que-el-gobierno-de-venezuela-bloquea-sus-servicios/

I told you, everything was going from hell since the death of the cancerous one (NO, I won't respect the son of a bitch who put Maduro as the goddamn president, fucking country, fucking people.

I hate this fucking country and all the fucking people in it. Idolatry bastards. Fuck the communist friend I had in the states who believes all these lies. IM Freaking tired of this country.

edited 14th Feb '14 5:39:36 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

You know, I had a friend that never posted anything about politics in her facebook, then she went to the UBV (Bolivarian University of Venezuela, basically an officialist university where idiots gets in, and go out as professionals) and began showing support tho Chavez. Makes me wonder if there is a brainwashing machine there or what, cause some of the thing she post is uther and complete bullshit that I cannot believe she really believes in that. If true then it might explain a lot.

The education level and diplomas that you get from there might be worth less than shit, but I must say, the place is rather impressive and kind of makes you wanna study there.

Oh! And what this? VTV covering a opossition protest? It would have been nice if it wasn't obvious their intent on provoking the protester in attacking them. Seriously! There wasn't a second where those bastards wheren't insulting the protesters.

And well, tomorrow's the day where the reds getting on the road. Anyone believes a big conflict will surge from this?

edited 14th Feb '14 7:48:55 PM by eligram

For the record, all my news on this latest event I got from fairly progressive sources, and they haven't been putting on a pro-Chavez slant. I think the old red guard approach of "stick by your team no matter what" just doesn't fly with todays netroots. Which is good, as the netroots are the guys who can get news out of Caracas and Valencia, just like they were getting it out of Kiev.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Which is good, because the radical left hardly covered ourselves in glory this time last century.

As for the PSUV; when students and trade unions hate a supposedly left-wing government, you get the feeling he's not a brilliant example of a fresh, fair new politics.

EDIT: There's also the deeper issue that, regardless of what the opposition have to say, they have a right to say it, conservative or otherwise.

edited 15th Feb '14 3:52:28 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

So I take the Trigal thing was 100% Twitter panic?

That's what I've heard from first hand accounts, yes. Not that it'd be hard to believe.

caracaschronicles.com is good. daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com is also good if you're looking for a more radical slant. devilsexcrement.com is also good, but doesn't update as often as it should. Also self-plug.

(Also, the actual term for "perdigones" is "beanbag rounds".)

Edit: And on the useful idiots thing, I'll be honest, I've grown somewhat resentful towards foreign leftists over all this. If it weren't for the fact that the opposition tends to the centre-left I'd probably be a randian or something, entirely out of spite.

Editedit:

So have (ex)presidents Uribe (Colombia), Toledo (Perú) and Arias (Costa Rica).

Editeditedit: Oh, and Pastrana, too (Colombia).

edited 15th Feb '14 8:16:14 AM by stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

My God, it just pisses me off that they keep using the word "comrade", a communist phrase, when they are supposedly a socialist group. It' like they are insulting us while keeping the hypocrisy that they are socialist when in truth they are fucking communists.

I hope there is a hell, and that Chavez is burning like a fucking whore there for this.

Socialism and communism are not necessarily different things. In Marxian theory, "socialism" is the mechanism by which "communism" will be brought about. "Comrade" is just a pretentious term for a political ally, and isn't necessarily limited to communists.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Meh, as far as I'm concerned in practice socialism is communism is marxism is leninism is trotskyism is stalinism is maoism is castrism is chavism.

Edit: And before someone brings it up, I'm not referring to social democracy.

edited 15th Feb '14 9:14:03 AM by stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

Yeah, but the thing is that they're selling socialism as "everything to the people" where communism is basically "everything for the goverment", which is what they're doing. And the people are fine with it!!

Meh, I don't know, it just pisses me off that they keep using that word in a wrong context. Nothing changes the fact that "comrade" is word is strongly assosiated with communism, and that is the total opposite to the "democracy" they're trying to sell us.

Can anyone tell me how big is the red concentration? I'm afraid that I can only use internet on my phone and sucks big time therefore, and cannot find a reliable source of how big it i

edited 15th Feb '14 9:42:45 AM by eligram

What ways are there ways to make manifestations look larger than they really are? The only one I know is the fisheye lens thing.

Judging from VTV material, their manifestation is also large.

While we're at it, something I noticed was that most of the attendees at the Youth Day march seemed to be well into their 30s or more.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!