Cut without explanation: Useful Notes On Bra Sizes

We had a TRS thread about this page a couple months ago, and the decision was it should stay, albeit with the creepier sections cut out. The thread was locked, and no one cut the creepy parts. Then a new thread was made today suggesting the same thing, and the page was cut completely. What gives? We could have easily salvaged that page. Yes, the creepy parts needed to be cut, but that was just the last couple paragraphs, not the whole thing.

misread

edited 4th Aug '11 12:01:58 AM by SpellBlade

While I was surprised by how quickly it was cut, I'm still not convinced that we need an article on this at all.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I saw that, Spell. That's the one I was talking about that was made today. Some people said we should cut it, some people said we should fix it, and then it was cut and the thread locked.

And as I said in the first thread, this is a very useful page to have—assuming its not written in a creepy way (which most of it wasn't). It's harder to learn anything about bra sizes than you'd think. Considering the number of references to it in fiction, a page that explains it is pretty helpful.

Yeah. I wish more time had been spent deliberating, and people who might not want it cut offering good reasons, but I don't really know if this is exactly useful or informative. Useful Notes, to me, should be like a reading companion to tropes. They help you understand aspects of them by explaining many real life elements. If you've never been exposed to, say, American Thanksgiving, the trope page on it might inform you on what you need to know to better understand tropes concerning them.

I'm not sure what this page offers. You...find out about bra sizes? It doesn't seem to have any applicability, trope-wise, not found in the actual tropes that may involve it.

edited 3rd Aug '11 10:48:29 PM by helterskelter

Does Wikipedia not cover it?

Seriously, though, "it gets mentioned in fiction" =/= "every minute detail related to it needs to be on this site."

edited 3rd Aug '11 10:53:39 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Not only that, but even then, the purpose of Useful Notes is to have pages on matters that are important for an author at the time of creating a work.

And I really don't see how or why a bra or its size needs to be a plot point.

Also, you can ask around, Wikipiedia exists too as well.

In any case, the page, even if it stays needs a rewrite. It is serious impossible to read or understand.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

Judging from the way it's written, it just takes bra sizes and attaches them to character base terminology and tropes on the site. And for Loli, if they don't wear bras, why are they even on that list?

If you want to keep it the least somebody could do is just write it out rather than making a small bubble table that attaches bra sizes to their character-type. Judging from the Japanese names being first, you could just make a list stating "A Funyun's general bra cup size ranges from a B to D in English Measurements or a B to D in European Measurements". Something like that. The "Commonly used for" part isn't needed at all, and it just attaches unsavory tags to something that people want to be informative.

The unrealistic part doesn't need to be there since having over-exaggerated breast size would ignore this chart anyway, and most of them only increase the cup size by a few sizes larger.

In general I wouldn't mind if that Useful Notes page was gone.

Troper Page

It is gone. Which is my problem. I don't know where you guys are looking, but the last time I looked at the page was a couple months ago, so my memory is fuzzy. I just remember that under the graph were some poorly-worded paragraphs that could probably be cut. Unless someone is going to restore it or otherwise provide a copy of it, that's all I can say about actually fixing the page.

Here you go. It's edit history

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

The link was off. For some reason it used to be under Useful Notes On Bra Sizes. Odd.

edited 3rd Aug '11 11:28:12 PM by helterskelter

I am convinced... that it was completely unnecessary.

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

The cut or the article?

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

The article.

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

The only parts i wanted to save on the page were a few paragraphs and the chart at the bottom of the page.

As I had said before the actual size conversion chart is Useful Notes because there is a cultural difference in sizes like an F cup is an American D-Cup. It's like centimeters to inches except they don't actually tell you there is a difference.

Bra sizes show up all the time in Anime, Chu Bra is an anime entirely about them, or B Gata H Kei's OP has them plastered all over as well as Takeshita's nickname is F-Shita in a reference to her Bra size. However it's lost in translation even the official release didn't attempt to change it. Going off the deepend a bit... You get porn works that say "I-Cup insert name here" type thing and yeah they arnt as big as you would think.

And in anime certain breast sizes are connected to certain tropes it's the way it's done. Yamato Nadeshiko are always a B-Cup fitting the "Ideal Japanese body type" as well as fitting the personality type. With the exception of the Shana Clone s Tsundere are almost always a B-Cup or at most a C-Cup etc. I was actually looking to expand on what was there on the page a bit.

Anyway I give up... Marq FJA can probably explain better.

edited 4th Aug '11 12:02:27 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Bra sizes show up all the time in Anime, Chu-Bra!! is an anime entirely about them, or B Gata H Kei's OP has them plastered all over as well as Takeshita's nickname is F-Shita in a reference to her Bra size. However it's lost in translation even the official release didn't attempt to change it. Going off the deepend a bit... You get porn works that say "I-Cup insert name here" type thing and yeah they arnt as big as you would think.

These things can be placed on the Work's page as well and explained in better detail than this general notes page could provide, and also increase their work's Trivia page. After all, it's a more closer-to-work thing if you provide the information concerning the bra sizes on there, as opposed to a stereotype-based graph and a list of common trends that don't apply to a high range of works.

Troper Page

Linking to a Useful Notes page where it tells all about the thing is far easier and less messy than having the same list on 50 different trivia pages.

Useful Notes are normally explaining things like that I thought? I mean we have Useful Notes on the Kimono on World War II, on Canada etc.

edited 4th Aug '11 12:14:49 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Useful Notes on a variety of subjects, the purpose of which is threefold:
To debunk common media stereotypes.
To help you understand some media better.
To educate, inform, and sometimes entertain.

This is not an important Useful Note. It has next to no actual relevance in any story, more than knowing why hairs are different colours.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!

50? It's hardly fifty. And I'm fairly sure that not even twenty pages really have the need of us detailing the bra size of a character in order to understand they're a Yamato Nadeshiko.

And Useful Notes are pages that are used to give an author material and understanding of a subject in a short, abridged version with respect to material that is normally needed in the works of tropers.

^She said it better.

edited 4th Aug '11 12:19:48 AM by juancarlos

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

It did those last two well (at least the last section did) and the first one which it broke "the don't talk about it" media stereotype. Most of the last half was from a Japanese book on how to make anime characters work or something the actual site is gone now.

edited 4th Aug '11 12:29:11 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Linking to a Useful Notes page where it tells all about the thing is far easier and less messy than having the same list on 50 different trivia pages.

You don't need to list everything to explain a notable detail concerning a character's bra size and why it's relevant. Rather than rely on approximations that are not very relevant such as "she is a Somethinyuu, so her Bra/Breast size is usually D or F, and it's mainly used as Fanservice or Other Character Trope", you can directly explain it in an article relating to the work at hand, in more detail.

Troper Page

That's not how debunking media stereotypes work. Debunking a media stereotype is when the myths and exaggerations that media uses for whatever purposes, whether narrative or otherwise, are disproven via either methodological research or at least some fact checking.

This page didn't present none of that.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

But once again, the Useful Notes namespace is not used to explain bra sizes. It is used to explain somewhat important aspects of media that are often misrepresented.

It is used to explain things like gun safety, real-life sword and other fighting techniques, real-life locations and mental illnesses that are often misrepresented in media.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!

Not to mention, I don't think anyone would become more enlightened when it comes to anime or media in general because of that page.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

I was for a rework of it so it would be more educational expanding the explanation of the chart and why their size system is different (due to the national avg being a lot smaller than the US.) go into more detail on Personality Types connected with bra size (if i put down how most Anime Tsundere stay in the B-Cup range outside of Shana Clone on the Tsundere page it would get deleted fast as hell) and put down more detail how most Mangaka manage to exaggerate the actual sizes when they state their size outside of Shown In Their Work series such as Negima, Chu Bra, Futari Ecchi etc.

But cutting it entirely was too extreme. But oh well.

edited 4th Aug '11 1:03:53 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!