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Total posts: [16]
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Needs Cleanup: Save Game Limits get usage counts

Looking over the Save Game Limits page, it seems to be suffering a bad case of drift. A lot of entries seem to work from the assumption that *anything* other than "save anywhere at will" counts as an instance of this trope.

Thoughts on where to put the line, and what exactly should be removed or not?
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 2 32 Footsteps, Thu, 14th Jul '11 7:20:09 PM from Just north of Arkham Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
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By the description, it is. It even says in the description that it might be due to technological limits (i.e. back in my day, when you could only save at an inn or using up an item, and then said item could only be used on the overworld map... and by gum, we liked it that way!).

I don't think it's encountering drift at all. Now, whether or not it should be split into subtropes based on particular limits is a different question.
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 3 shimaspawn, Thu, 14th Jul '11 7:41:17 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think splitting might be a better idea. It's not being misused, but having a split between the different methods would do a lot to cut down on bloat.

The trope is anything other than "save anywhere at will." That's the whole of the trope. It's not misuse. This is just a very broad trope.

edited 14th Jul '11 7:42:26 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
But not the original intent of the trope, is the thing. When I first made the page, the idea was "restrictions on game saves as form of Fake Difficulty."

Since that would seem a logical break point, anybody have a good idea for a name for "save game limits as fake difficulty"?
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 5 Spark 9, Fri, 15th Jul '11 12:50:30 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
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There's also Save Game Limits for the sake of real difficulty, e.g. any Rogue Like.

But yeah, a limit for physical (memory/disk space) reasons is a different trope than a limit for gameplay reasons.
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 6 shimaspawn, Fri, 15th Jul '11 6:00:00 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think a clearer split would be the bullet points at the top. Reasons for why they chose to do the save structure as they do aren't always clear without looking at the base code or talking to the developers. The ways in which saves are implemented are more objective.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 7 Trigger Loaded, Fri, 15th Jul '11 12:43:14 PM from Canada, eh? Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
$50 a day, plus expenses
I will admit my first thought is a Sliding Scale of save game limits. Or, at least, a soft split.

I do agree there's a difference between save game limits due to technological concerns, and save game limits as a form of difficulty, as well.

Hmm, not sure which would work better.
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 8 shimaspawn, Fri, 15th Jul '11 12:44:16 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] But how do you tell which is which without Word of God? We don't have that for most of these.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 9 Trigger Loaded, Fri, 15th Jul '11 12:58:48 PM from Canada, eh? Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
$50 a day, plus expenses
[up] I did consider that, though I suspect most of the limits are rather obvious.

I will grant there are probably a few borderline cases, but when you limit saving with a perishable item (Early Resident Evils) or only allow the save to halt your progress, and failing deletes your file (Roguelikes) that's fairly obvious.

In the case of being able to save only in the overworld or on key points is a bit more troublesome, I will admit, so perhaps that division wouldn't work out, then.
Don't take life too seriously. It's only a temporary situation.
 10 shimaspawn, Fri, 15th Jul '11 1:07:42 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] Really? I don't know any cases where I can tell you which is which and I game a lot. A large portion of the games can only be saved here and there, but it's really hard to tell why without being told why they made that choice.

edited 15th Jul '11 1:08:52 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
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Well there is

  • limited saves, RE's ribbons which on easy you get one with an infinity symbol, Dynasty Warriors allows Infinite saves on easy, three on normal and one on hard for each battle.
  • location saving RE's typewriter, Dragon Quest's churches (only in towns.)
  • world map saves
  • games that have a world map that don't allow saving there.
  • checkpoint saving
  • auto saving
  • no saving in a level

edited 15th Jul '11 1:11:14 PM by Raso

 12 shimaspawn, Fri, 15th Jul '11 1:10:45 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
There's also save at check points. Save only on the overworld map. Save between levels. It's hard to tell where these things fall.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
"But not the original intent of the trope, is the thing. When I first made the page, the idea was "restrictions on game saves as form of Fake Difficulty."

Since that would seem a logical break point, anybody have a good idea for a name for "save game limits as fake difficulty"?"

We have a trope for that now.
 
 14 Meta Four, Mon, 12th Sep '11 2:39:41 PM from the house of bread and battle
 15 Known Unknown, Tue, 13th Sep '11 10:55:21 AM from Here. There. Everywhere.
Fresh For 2014
I say keep as is - tropes often drift to be broader than they originally were, particularly when initial definitions are a bit too specific without something broader to back it up.

I've long felt that how a trope is used and the definition it sustains, if that use and definition is still a valid trope and/or something we should note, has a bit more worth than the original intent.

Usually I'd say split out the original idea, but in this case the resulting trope clearly encompasses the original, and is not so broad that splitting out such an arbitrary distinction is a good idea.
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Total posts: 16
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