The General US Politics Thread

So Trump wants to pull out of NATO, to break up the EU, lift sanctions from Russia and is hostile to the FBI, CIA, NSA and China.

I wonder who this all benefits?

Definitely not a Russian puppet though.

He even kinda looks like a rejected Muppets Show character. Maybe they should perform a colonoscopy on him just to check for Russian hands.

J.P. Grosse is back?

That will change.

@Skillz: Well, one way or another it looks like we're going to find out whether the claims that Russia is acting the way it is because its leaders actually believe that the west is out to get them.

It always has been, let's be honest.

Well yes, but the west for their part typically thinks Russia is out to get them.

Sure, looking apart from American corporations helping to rebuild the USSR's industry after the Revolution and the lend-lease of food, railroad tracks and trucks.

That was in the 30s though. And even then we knew war with the Soviets was inevitable. It's just Germany went crazy and we had to put them down so it was delayed for a little while.

edited 15th Jan '17 5:42:38 PM by LeGarcon

If Trump's not impeached soon then I'm afraid we lost the Cold War going into overtime. Russia threw a Hail Mary and might have just inched out the win in the end.

Putin be like "You see?, THAT is how you defeat the US" Im impress...and terrfy

For a given definition of win. They may lay their rivals low, but I don't expect to see Bearland Osmosis, a Moscow-centered international trade network, or states clamoring to call themselves managed democracies, and, at least here, I've never heard or read a single public administrator state that we want to catch up to the way things are done in Russia. (Except you know the President-Elect).

Russia's the same country that overthrew its own government thrice in less than a century, during major international confrontations each time. The Russians are not going to be the 21st century's heavy even in the worst case. That chance came and went.

If anything their victory this cycle may be Pyrrhic either way. A new US administration, supposing said country remains recognizable, will probably be rather upset at their ex-puppet masters and eager to repair the damage to the liberal world order. Or, a new US administration, following ruthless realpolitik, will, without Trump, realize very quickly that it has many more cards to play in that game than Russia and few common interests.

Though that says nothing about domestic policy or morality, and in the long run, we still lived through lousy times.

*PS Not a foreign affairs guy. If there's holes above, someone will have to point them out.

If Trump manages to "befriend" Russia and starts a cold war with China, geopolitical forces will likely hold the alliance of convenience together, but I seriously doubt Trump is the sort of political mastermind who could pull something like that off. If anything Putin is likely to try and play the United States and China against each other to advance Russia's own position in the world, and avoid becoming overly dependent on China.

Assuming Russia's leaders are right that global warming will hurt their rivals far more than it will hurt them, and the United States breaks its back in a (non-nuclear) war against China, the 22nd century could be a Russian century, but that's at the very edge of plausibility, and requires Russian leadership to be willing to push the world to the brink of destruction all throughout that period.

edited 15th Jan '17 6:31:53 PM by CaptainCapsase

You rang?

Russia isn't an unstoppable supervillain, but I'd be careful of underestimating them or their interests. Doing that was how Putin blindsided the US in the first place. Russia is a major power (and let us be frank, the US is now as well, the rank of superpower having atrophied in the last decade and a half or so), and they play bad hands well, all throughout history. Underestimate them, that bad hand becomes a better one.

The problem with Trump isn't that he's getting friendlier with Russia; the post-Cold War triumphalist policy is what led to the current situation with Moscow, and it certainly needed to change. The problem with Trump is that he will take it too far in the other direction, and so the real question would be how to temper his moves. Does the EU act as that safety valve or does the Senate? Because its one or the other.

EDIT- I'd not take Russia's comments on the environment too seriously (in the sense that its part of some supervillain scheme). His views are more in tune with Asia's than Europe's on the matter, where they see environmentalism as basically a leash on the economy and development...which is why India and China tend to have the most gripes on the various treaties.

edited 15th Jan '17 6:38:56 PM by FFShinra

Russia kind of seems like a Cornered Rattlesnake going by that description.

Trump embracing Russia then brings to mind another snake-related trope...

But who's the viper, Trump or Putin?

Why not both?

I'd honestly place Trump as being even more likely to be the viper, considering how volatile he is. Like, I can totally imagine a scenario where against all expectations, a detente with Russia is hammered out (presumably because the cooler heads on his foreign policy team were actually doing the work), Putin starts talking about retirement after a final term in office (presumably looking to bow out on a high note that will leave him looking like a genius and leave his successor to take the blame for the long term consequences of his policies) and makes a joke about Trump's hair only for him to go absolutely ballistic and scuttle everything. Because nothing says Trump liking snatching failure from the jaws of success at the last minute because of impulsive egomania.

edited 15th Jan '17 7:59:15 PM by CaptainCapsase

Putin isn't likely to underestimate him. The reason he is able to play Trump like a fiddle is because the toupee is very similar to the oligarchs Putin had to deal with early in his term.

Comrade Trump is going to end sanctions with Russia in return for a nuclear reduction deal.

Who could've seen this coming?

edited 15th Jan '17 8:08:27 PM by MadSkillz

That's not an unreasonable deal (nuclear arms reduction treaties are among the most positive deals that a president can negotiate both in terms of public image and in real terms), but I shudder to think what will happen once Trump starts running off his mouth.

Then there's that issue, though to be fair I wouldn't really expect the United States to do anything different on our end.

edited 15th Jan '17 8:21:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

Watch Putin decommission nukes that are on their last legs anyhow, negating any meaningful purpose of this "deal"

>.>

For a guy who's hemorrhaging political capital over alleged dealings with Russia, he sure isn't doing anything to dissuade people from the idea that he's trying to help Russia.

You know, considering Trump wants (or wanted) to ramp up Nuclear Weapons production, this might actually be a positive.

As much as I despise Russia for what they did, and don't trust either Putin or Trump, I would still support that.

We are closer to Armageddon right now than during a large portion of the cold war, simply because Russia will not necessarily be able sustain this confrontation indefinitely like the Soviet Union before them; a new framework for dealing with Russia is the single most important foreign policy issue, because under the status quo sooner or later Russia will end up backing itself into a corner and all hell will break loose.

The preferable outcome isn't becoming friends with Russia, because that's not happening without some major shakeups to the geopolitical landscape (ie the collapse of the EU and a breakdown of German-American relations), but rather something like the Détente of the 1970s where deterrence is achieved without active confrontations. Trump is very likely to fuck up the deterrence part, and we'll have to find out the hard way whether Russia is telling the truth about its intentions.

edited 15th Jan '17 8:59:44 PM by CaptainCapsase