Needs a Rename (New Crowner 10.25): Unfazed Everyman

Dent is famous?

Fight smart, not fair.

It wouldn't be changing the name. Token Human already exists. I don't see how this trope is really distinct from it.

To some extent, I guess. Probably more famous than a lot of other stuff.

something

You have read the description of Token Human and the examples, right? It doesn't match the description of The Arthur Dent.

For example, the Don Knotts appearing on The Muppet Show amidst a bunch of puppets makes him a Token Human, but not The Arthur Dent. The Arthur Dent need not be the only human around, either.

Yes, he is.

Link isn't working, sorry.

edited 23rd Sep '11 9:14:38 PM by Auxdarastrix

Does he match up to Superman?

Fight smart, not fair.

The trope Token Human leaves me with a different impression and the way that Arthur Dent calls itself a subtrope did the same. But fine.

Anyway, rename. I think of Arthur Dent as being clueless before I think of him being totally okay with all the aliens and stuff. Justifiably clueless, but clueless.

It would be nice to see a Wick Check.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I actually own the Hitchhikers' collection (disclaimer: haven't started reading it), and am British. And I still didn't know what trope they were going for until I read the redirect for The Companion.

I suggest swapping the names.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

" I had to scroll halfway down the page to even know who Arthur Dent is. "

I don't want to start a flame war, but, well, why is this a problem?

edited 13th Oct '11 3:28:50 PM by PrimoVictoria

Because names that only work if you know the character are bad names.

Fight smart, not fair.

Especially when Arthur Dent is definitely known for other things.

I'm getting Tropers Are Morons vibes from that explanation. Are you implying that tropes are too stupid to read why the trope is named after Arthur Dent in it's describtion?

Yes.

Well, that's what Wick Checks are for, isn't it?

I'd check a few myself but I don't have access to tabbed browsing at the moment, so, watch this space.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

No implication is involved - it's been proven time and again that many editors will simply go by the title rather then reading the description at all.

I'm starting to get seriously sick of the "but the description clarifies it!" argument coming up here time and again. It's not like this is one of the "Japanese tropes suck/character-named tropes are bad" philosophical debates - we know that a clear description will not prevent misuse on a confusingly-named trope. The only reason this name would be worth saving is if the misuse is low enough that preventing it doesn't outweigh the inbounds we might lose (800+ is pretty good).

Well, then we need a wick check. And there's no harm in thinking up a few good redirects; whether it gets renamed or not, those are always useful.

This trope is badly broken, mostly because of its terrible name; it's getting massive misuse as Straight Man, which is Arthur Dent's other primary characterization, and as a broader Fish out of Water, even in situations that don't involve aliens or special powers.

Eg:

Surrounded by Idiots lists Jerry Seinfeld as an Arthur Dent.

The Stanley Family: again, main character is 'normal' in the sense that they're a Straight Man; there's no aliens or special powers here.

The Nostalgia Chick: No aliens or special powers; misused to mean Straight Man.

Ray Gun: Lily is potholed to it; she's a Fish out of Water, but she's not an Arthur Dent (again, she's not surrounded by people with strange powers or by aliens — simply being a civilian in a military environment doesn't qualify you for this trope.)

Gangsta: Not being a gangster doesn't qualify you for this trope, as far as I can tell. (It seems to also see some use as 'the outsider', which might be a worthwhile trope, but is clearly broader than what this trope is now.)

Cold-Blooded Torture: Mindless pothole for the character in a situation where the trope isn't even remotely relevant. (It should be potholing HHGG instead, which is what usually happens when there's a reference to a character from a work. The editor seems to have mistakenly believed that we had a specific page just for the character, which is a common form of misuse caused by character-named tropes.)

Beard of Sorrow: Again, used for a character who is a Fish out of Water but not this trope.

Some of these are subtle distinctions, but the point is that Arthur Dent is a terrible name for the trope, because it completely fails to make any of those distinctions. In particular, it specifically sees misuse for Straight Man and to mean a generic Fish out of Water.

edited 14th Oct '11 8:26:31 AM by Aquillion

Because it's not actually possible to read every trope every time it's used. When a trope's meaning seems obvious from the context, people will pick up on it and continue to reuse it even without reading its description; this is a good thing and should be encouraged (we don't want to force people to read all of T Vtropes before they can participate!)

You can complain about people who use tropes without reading them, and call them idiots and try to ignore them, but the basic fact is that they exist and make up a significant part of T Vtropes' users, so we need to choose our tropes' names with them in mind or we'll end up with misuse of the sort I highlighted above.

The Arthur Dent is a misleading and unclear name, so people misunderstand what it means and end up using it as Straight Man or a generic Fish out of Water instead, as I showed above. That sort of misuse shows why the trope needs to be renamed.

edited 14th Oct '11 8:32:06 AM by Aquillion

Is this trope still salvageable ?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I agree with him that having to scroll down to find an explanation of the Trope Namer is irrelevant, but it's still in need of a rename.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

I could get behind a merge because the distinction between those tropes really isn't very clear, but it definitely needs a rename.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

I support a rename. To reiterate: Arthur Dent is known for a lot of things, not just what the trope is.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

Correct:

A mundane character in a fantastic context:

1. Characters.Character Development Thread
2. Chinese Ghost Story
3. Countdown To Final Crisis: Jimmy Olsen is an example, right?
4. Coyote Blue
5. Doctor Who and Characters.Doctor Who Companions And Supporting Cast
6. El Goonish Shive and Characters.El Goonish Shive
7. Embellished Webcomics
8. Evil Plan The Webcomic
9. Exorcists
10. Fantasy Kitchen Sink

An ordinary character in a cast of weird characters:

1. Characters.Dead Island
2. Characters.F-Zero F-Zero

Unclear:

X Just X:

1. Canon Foreigner: Agent Myers from Hellboy
2. Characters.Character Development Thread
3. Characters.Character Issues: Jake
4. Children Of The Red King
5. Characters.Dark Angel
6. Trivia.Deadly Mistakes, Characters.Deadly Mistakes, and Deadly Mistakes.
7. Evil Laugh and Firefly: Wash from Firefly
8. Farscape

Not sure:

1. CloudCuckooLander.Film: Alice in Alice in Wonderland.
2. Characters.Final Fantasy VI: "Arvis is the Returner to go to in Narshe, and tags along with Banon when the Returners travel to Vector for peace negotiations with the Empire. Arvis is resourceful, but he isn't a combatant."

Incorrect:

Shoehorned for a Real Life person:

1. Christopher Moore

Listed as a related trope in a questionable context:

1. Creature of Habit: "When a Creature of Habit has his routine shot to pieces, with no chance of recovery, he'll probably become The Arthur Dent once he adjusts."

Other:

Potholed with the Trope Namer:

1. Cold-Blooded Torture
2. Creature of Habit
3. Crossing The Streams
4. Cut His Heart Out with a Spoon

Indexes:

1. Characters as Device
2. It.Elenco Provvisorio T-V

edited 16th Oct '11 6:35:01 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Your definition of Arthur Dent is a little broader than the trope actually is. What you've noted as correct examples are actually Token Human. Unless I'm failing to grasp the distinction again.