Rename: Osananajimi

Couple problems with this trope. One, it's ridiculously hard to spell. Two, it's not in English when there are suitable English terms for it. Three, the word just means 'Childhood Friend' and nothing more in Japanese when the trope as defined is a lot more specific. Characters who aren't examples are on the page itself, and the trope pages tend to have a lot better usage than wicks, don't they? I don't see a reason for keeping a trope named like this.

It was voted in a crowner about two months ago. That also explains the relatively low inbound numbers.

edited 9th Jul '11 4:22:23 PM by EternalSeptember

This is another thread where a possible rename was discussed just for reference.

We could try a crowner again, if you think that opinion has changed enough to justify it. That last alternative titles crowner for this trope did look a little odd to me considering it included the current name, so maybe a single proposition one would work better.

It wasn't a rename crowner, it was looking for possible names for a YKTTW, so there was no "original title" to be renamed.

Oh, okay, sorry for the misunderstanding there. If we do decide to start up the rename process with this, I would like to see a single proposition rename crowner first though.

However, if you look at the crowner with a bit of attention to something other than simply what's on top, you'll note that Harem Childhood Friend actually had a higher acceptance ratio (1.5:1 for Harem Childhood Friend to 1.43:1 to Osananajimi) and neither of them had reached a 2:1 consensus.

<Mod Hat ON>

No, this thread will not be locked at this time. It's a valid question.

<Mod Hat OFF>

Anyway, looking through the examples on the page itself, I see seven examples I know are wrong and I can't even identify most of the anime examples. They're describing just Childhood Friends or just a Childhood Friend Romance.

I'll try a wick check in a bit.

edited 9th Jul '11 4:34:16 PM by Arha

I went ahead and made a single proposition rename crowner here to hopefully settle this again. I hope that was not premature.

I added Harem Childhood Friend as a redirect. In close crowners, that should always be done, and especially if the winner is impenetrable, like this one.

My vote depends on if there is a good name to replace it. Until someone gets a good one it's Nay. Get a good one and it's all good for rename.

What would qualify it as a good name? Harem Childhood Friend is serviceable, but not great. Osananajimi, on the other hand, is dire. The first is boring and a bit wordy, but at least conveys the meaning. The second does not convey the meaning and is difficult to memorise or spell.

I think we ought to be able to do better than either, but admittedly, nothing springs to mind right now.

edited 9th Jul '11 6:08:20 PM by BobbyG

Wick check time.

• Amagami - Incorrect. Used as just childhood friends.
• Anime - Unclear. Not familiar with NGE anime gainax ending thingy.
• Anohana - Correct. Example implies whoever added it is familiar with the actual specifics of the trope.
• Brother–Sister Incest/Anime - Unclear. The page it's talking about (triangle hearts 3 forever or whatever) doesn't go into details, but Nanoha itself doesn't mentioned anything like this.
• Anime Character Types - Index
• Anime Tropes - Index
• Archetypal Character - Incorrect. This is an index page and thus I would normally not count it either way, but Osananajimis as defined are definitely not this. So even indexes are getting it wrong.
• Asobi Ni Iku Yo - Unclear.
• B Gata H Kei - Correct. I think. Page doesn't say but that's what I seem to recall.
• Childhood Friend Romance - Supertrope.
• Childhood Friends - Supertrope.
• Childhood Marriage Promise - Incorrect. Technically correct, but it should link to the broader Childhood Friend Romance.
• Corpse Party - Unclear. I think it's probably wrong though.
• Cross Channel - Correct.
• Dating Sim - Correct.
• Dragon Crisis - Unclear.
• Ecchi - Correct.
• Ef A Fairy Tale Of The Two - Correct.
• Gloria Union - Incorrect. From what I can tell of the setting I don't think it's even possible.
• Harem Genre - Correct, I guess. Again, not all childhood friend romances are this but since it's about harem anime I'll give it a pass.
• Hidan No Aria - Correct, I guess. If she's a yamato nadeshiko and a childhood friend romance she probably fits. Though the character page makes it seem like she couldn't even if she wanted to.
• Hoshizora E Kakaru Hashi - Incorrect.
• Infinite Stratos - Unclear.
• K-On! - Incorrect. Just Childhood Friends
• Kono S Wo Mi Yo - Unclear.
• Lovely Complex - Correct.
• Magical Girlfriend - Unclear.
• Maken-ki - Incorrect. Used as Childhood Friends
• Neon Genesis Evangelion - Unclear.
• Ore no Im&#333;to ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai - Incorrect. Just a Childhood Friend Romance
• School Days - Incorrect. Character page indicates she's only known him a few years. So not even a Childhood Friend, really.
• Sekai-ichi Hatsukoi - Correct. Probably.
• Schoolgirl Series - Incorrect. A broader trope should be linked to there.
• Sora No Otoshimono - Unclear.' I can't tell. It looks incorrect to me but I can't say for sure.
• Supporting Harem - Unclear. Links to above series but gives no more context.
• Taboo Tattoo - Unclear. I really doubt it's correct, but the page is tiny.
• The World God Only Knows - Correct. The girl does not fit but the protagonist gives basically a perfect definition of the trope and says she doesn't fit it.
• To Aru Majutsu No Index High School - ... Incorrect. It probably should be the broader trope. It's just a rant someone is giving without specifics.
• With a Friend and a Stranger - Incorrect based on what I know of Eastern RPGs. Should just be Childhood Friends.
• Write a Dating Sim - Incorrect. Refers to broader Childhood Friend Romance. It's not technically wrong, but in context it's probably what is meant.
• Write a Harem Anime - Incorrect. Too broad.
• Write a Shonen Series - Unclear. I want to say incorrect but it very well might mean the narrower trope intended.
• Yamato Nadeshiko - 'Correct.
• Yaoi Guys - Incorrect.
• Yoake Mae Yori Ruriiro Na - Unclear.
• Yggdra Union - Unclear but probably wrong.
• You Didn't Ask - Incorrect. Ukyo is a Forgotten Childhood Friend and thus can't qualify.
• Ys - Incorrect. Seems to be pointing towards a broader trope.
• Yumekui Merry - Unclear.

Personally, I think it's highly likely that the majority of the unclear examples are not this trope, but since I'm not familiar with them I can't say for sure. Anyway, that's 16 incorrect, 4 indexes or supertropes linking to their subtrope, 16 unclear and 12 correct.

So, 16/44 (discounting those index pages) incorrect 16/44 unclear but probably mostly wrong and 12/44 correct. The page itself is no better. That's at least over a third misuse due to being mistaken for a broader trope.

edited 9th Jul '11 6:13:08 PM by Arha

Found the Evangelion example mentioned in Anime, for reference. I think it does qualify, doesn't it? Unless I've misunderstood the trope.

But that's still a lot of Incorrects.

edited 9th Jul '11 6:18:01 PM by BobbyG

Hm, yes, she does qualify then. So that's 13 correct I suppose. Still, I've yet to hear a good reason for keeping the trope name apart from general concern about finding a good English name. That's a matter for an alt names crowner, not a single proposition crowner.

Harem Childhood Friend isn't any better all those incorrects would fit that name but not the trope itself.

No, see, it's being used to describe just childhood friends which harem childhood friend would definitely fix. And that's not the issue at question. If the current name is bad, it's bad.

The current name is being badly misused to mean just Childhood Friends But In Anime instead of it's harem connotations. It needs a rename. This is why we shouldn't use Japanese names that lack the connotations that we want for the trope. They get misused too often by people who actually speak Japanese.

I missed this the first time round, I'll need to read the old threads but as of now we're at:

the meaning to a regular Japanese person Osananajimi = Childhood Friend

The meaning to Harem Anime Creators & fans Osananajimi = Girl Next Door + Like Brother and Sister + Cannot Spit It Out + Childhood Friend Romance with some he's Not my Boyfriend if people bring it up and she'll be his alarm clock and offer to cook for the guy. all summed up in one trope.

She's basically the girl who grew up with the male lead and likes him but sees no need to rush things since she's the closest girl or only female friend he has, in some cases their parents and friends already consider them a couple, but once they become teens the guy becomes a chickmagnet and she has no real claim.

The info on the trope page is right but people still misuse it for "Childhood Friend But In Anime" So it needs to be renamed but the closest we've got is Harem Childhood Friend?

I think Harem Childhood Friend is a bad name because alot of these characters come from Dating Sims, V Ns, and Eroge where it's only one girl per route, so using "Harem" in the title is misleading.

Also from the wicks above I can confirm these are Correct:

Asobi Ni Iku Yo, Infinite Stratos, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Yumekui Merry, Sora No Otoshimono, Ore Imo.

edited 10th Jul '11 1:54:24 AM by No9

Datable Childhood Friend? It needs something different because the current one just isn't working.

The word "datable" misses me, but I think I know and approve of of where are you aiming at.

Datable meaning someone you can date.

I have to point this trope is not Childhood Friend, but in Harem Genre. It is about a specific stereotyping of childhood friends as romance interest. Harem Childhood Friend is not more correct then Osananajimi. As an Osananajimi may happen outside Harem Genre, as well.

PS:Incidentally, Arha said Osananajimi is being incorrectly listed at Archetypal Character, which is true. But that is clearly a problem with Archetypal Character page instead. It seems to be being confused with Stock Character. The Klutz is listed there for similar reasons.

edited 10th Jul '11 3:26:53 PM by Heatth

No, it is more correct. Undeniably. It's not perfect, but it's A. in English, B. means more than just Childhood Friend (which is how it's being misused a fair amount of the time) and C. adds in the word 'harem' which adds a qualifier that people are more likely to check out rather than assume they already know.

The Japanese title is obviously not working. Honestly, to completely get around such issues you need to go with awkward, incomplete or insulting titles like Domestic Childhood Friend, Harem Childhood Friend, Stereotypical Childhood Friend or Generic Childhood Friend. Those kind of things.

Childhood Friend Potential Love Intrest? Ok, it's long, but is it clear?