Seeking advice for making a PC more game-capable on a budget

I'm searching for ways to make my PC more capable of playing Team Fortress 2 and maybe some other couple years old games like Portal. My desktop PC is a 700 GR, which meets all the recommended system requirements except the graphics card.

Looking around, I thought about getting a Radeon HD 6450 graphics card*

. Is there anything significantly wrong with this?
If there aren't, what model should I get?

The info for that card says I should have a 400-watt power supply and I haven't checked yet but my computer apparently has a 300-watt supply. Is a 400-watt really necessary, and does anyone know any good deals on one?
Looking around I found some really cheap 400-watt ones, but looking up review it seems like most of those are so low-quality they'd be worse than the one I already have.

I've heard someone else say since my PC is using a Pentium IV, there's going to be a pretty big limit on my framerate for TF2 (and maybe all Source-based games) no matter what my GPU is, but he wasn't very specific as to how much. This was fairly confusing to me as a Pentium IV is exactly what the recommended system requirements (not the minimum) for Team Fortress 2 ask.

edited 7th Jul '11 8:22:04 PM by thatother1dude

Well, the Power Supply thing is so that you can fully harness your graphics card.

As for the card itself, I can't help you there since I prefer to use Nvidia cards, but it wouldn't hurt to hunt down some reviews for the card you're looking at.

Actually, 400 Watts sounds close to the requirements for my Nvidia 9400 GeForce, so if they're on a similar level, then all I can say is that you may need to fiddle with the settings TF2.

edited 7th Jul '11 9:26:28 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

1. Yes, you WILL need to uprgrade your power supply due to the graphics card, and it should be something even stronger than 400. Reason why is because if you only meet the requirement, any additional add-ons to your computer may not work or begin to affect the other components due to the uneven power distribution.

2. These days it's a better idea to upgrade your RAM than anything else. A four-core processor ought to do the trick for most games. You only need six-core and above for games like Sup Com or Crysis 2.

3. If you want to get a decent graphics card these days you WILL have to pay a pretty penny, no way around it. Getting the older stuff will only come back to haunt you later when you realize that all of the allegedly "low-end" newer games won't even run efficiently on your system, so it's best that you buy for the long-term here.

4. DON'T buy any used parts. PERIOD. It's tempting because of the much lower price tags, but used parts are likely to break down or create some hiccups in your system, and will have much shorter lifespans than your new equipment. Even worse, if the part is defective you won't be able to get a refund from the manufacturer, nor will the person who sold it to you want to take it back. The only used stuff you should be touching are the stuff that can easily be replaced, like cooling fans.

And lastly if all else fails, get a console! They're a hell of a lot cheaper to keep up with than a PC is!

edited 7th Jul '11 9:29:19 PM by SgtRicko

I would not bother upgrading your system significantly, you won't get enough bang for your buck. I don't know about TF 2's requirements, but I suppose that card will at least stand a chance of working. Or you can see if a card from a prior generation will use less power, it'd still be an upgrade over what you have.

"They're a hell of a lot cheaper to keep up with than a PC is! "

Gahahaha.

Consoles last 5 years, as do PC parts. The difference is that PC parts will get 5 years worth of games,while consoles have barren launches and final years.

1. Considering I won't have anything else running off the computer's power besides a mouse, a mic, and headphones and will 500w be reasonable?
2. If I need to replace my CPU then wouldn't I just as well get a new computer entirely? I'm not really sure four cores is anywhere near necessary given my 2-core PC with a below-recommended graphics card only runs the game medium-slow.
3. But I'm not trying to play any new games, I'm almost exclusively playing games that are several years old. Plus, I'm not planning on getting an old card, I'm planning on getting a low-end new card.
4. Noted

Currently I'm not using my desktop for gaming at all, I'm using my laptop (Toshiba Satellite PSAH0U-00Q009), which has a slower CPU*

but has better RAM*

^{2.9 GB compared to desktop's 1.0}

and a card that's three years newer*

^{an X1200 instead of an X300}

. Without a graphics card a good deal better than what my laptop already had, my desktop is unlikely to be any better. I'd just upgrade the graphics card of the laptop if that weren't near impossible.

In fact, I haven't even tried playing it on my desktop.

Don't start this.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:24:05 PM by thatother1dude

1. Yes, just in case.

2. You probably don't need to replace your CPU, just stick some more RAM in there (the appropriate type, of course). Changing the processor may not be necessary.

3. Well, it wouldn't hurt: Team Fortress 2 has models that are still in need of optimization, and since more and more keep getting added, it would probably help to get something slightly more powerful. Again, though, this also goes back to memory, so you should also upgrade that as well.

What I should have mentioned earlier was that PC Gamer has reviews of hardware, so hopefully you can find a review of the stuff you want by searching for it.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:32:52 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

I was thinking more towards present and near future when making those recommendations, but if you're planning on solely playing old stuff then even a dual-core processor along with an ATI 5570 graphics card should keep you happy. It's only the recent physics/particle heavy games with a ton of on-screen action that tend to screw over a lot of systems. And if you want to be really basic about the graphics cards, just get one that supports DX 10, that should do the trick.

But the RAM? Upgrade that sucker no matter what, it's a win-win proposition.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:45:13 PM by SgtRicko

How do you increase RAM without replacing a CPU? If it's too much effort for not so much, I think I just might say "screw it". It's a half-decade old family computer which may be replaced soon, and I get the feeling that, unlike the graphics card or power supply, whatever increases RAM of my current desktop wouldn't be good for anything to my next one.

When you say "slightly more powerful" do you mean like a step (6570) or two(6670) higher up ?

In general is it better to get something mid-end a year or two ago (the 5570) or something that's low-end now (like a 6450, 6570, or 6670)?

EDIT: Wait, 5570 isn't mid-tier, it's the third lowest. I think I accidentally searched "5770" instead.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:02:42 PM by thatother1dude

First off, if you want or need a whole new desktop, it's probably better to gather parts together than to order a pre-built one. You can worry about that later, though.

Second, I believe it's relatively simple to add in more RAM, as you probably just need to stick the RAM into the relevant ports.

Thirdly, probably a step or two above. Team Fortress 2 gets updated with unoptimized models, like I said before.

Lastly, probably something low-end now, as the newer cards probably support DirectX 10.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:02:14 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Well, I'll let you know if I can convince my parents that (family PC, remember?) Do you mean in-general, or just if you're planning on using a PC for gaming? Because if I can convince them that I could just wait it out until then (probably paying for some stuff, like the graphics card, myself).

Are RAM modules typically compatible with most PCs, or does it get more specific? Also, what limits how much RAM you can add to a computer?

(Thanks for all the advice so far)

edited 7th Jul '11 11:16:51 PM by thatother1dude

For gaming, definitely. I think companies generally don't offer very high-end stuff out of the box. One brand I definitely don't recommend getting is Alienware.

For general use, it may depend. You may want to get an HP Pavilion and swap out parts (from what I heard, it's a sort of Jack-Of-All-Trades computer that one can tailor to their own ends), but that can only go so far, I think.

Secondly, it depends. You computer may use DDR2 or DDR3-type RAM. As for limits, I'm not sure. Possibly ports and/or power.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:18:43 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Oh hell yes, go with the HP Pavillion. It's what I've been using since last year, and this sucker hasn't let me down one bit. Only downsides is that the CPU casing is smaller than most and some parts are integrated (thankfully not the graphics card, processor, or RAM), so you'll need to actually look for a general measurement on the new parts you're getting so you'll know if can fit or not.

Well, I know one good reason to build one: our monitor is a lot newer than the rest of the computer (only like a year or two old) so we could pretty happily re-use.

Instead of building one or instead of any other pre-built one?

edited 7th Jul '11 11:31:12 PM by thatother1dude

Yep. Only thing is I went for a whole new package, particularly the HP Pavilion Elite (HPE 410y), and that one is the entire package - monitor, keyboard, mouse, tower, everything. Should be a heck of a lot cheaper if you just buy the tower.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:35:07 PM by SgtRicko

Yeah, like I said, the Pavilion is nice for general-purpose use and can be tailored for gaming.

As for non-gaming use, it comes with a bunch of programs from the factory (stuff like Snapfish, Roxio, LightScribe, etc.).

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

I think you accidentally gave me a Mathematician's Answer, but from the next sentence I'm surmising you mean it's better than building one.

Yeah, just the tower would be enough; our mouse, keyboard, and printer are also still in good shape.

EDIT: Would a similar model also work, or are you just recommending the Elite specifically?

EDIT2: Huh, and Elite actually comes with a 5570

edited 7th Jul '11 11:50:26 PM by thatother1dude

Depends. The model I bought originally cost me over a thousand, but given that a year has passed (which in PC tech time is a LONG time) it should be much more reasonable if you go for only the tower. With that setup you'll be good for quite a few years. But if you're still looking for cheaper stuff then just browse Best Buy to see what the lower-end systems go for, most should cost no more than $550.

^^I would recommend whichever one is the one that has the port for a Personal Media Drive.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Well that specific model (HPE-410y) I could only find at Best Buy for $930, but other models I could find in the $500 range.

edited 8th Jul '11 12:22:46 AM by thatother1dude

I've always bought used machines and parts (personal used, reconditioned, floor model, etc…) with so few failures over 15 years of equipment I can count them on one hand (two bad SIMMs, a burned out SCSI controller, a bum GPU fan I replaced for 25¢.) Heck, I've had WAY more new than used electronics die on me. Computers don't have moving parts by and large, so hardware failures are rare as hen's teeth in my experience.

Aye, here's a card from one generation back for $20, Radeon HD 5450, works fine with a 300 Watt PSU. And you could of course get something even better on eBay.

Definitely, RAM is the first thing you should upgrade in any computer.

Both, assembling your own machine saves HUGE amounts of money over retail, though the savings do get bigger when you aim for higher specs.

Eric,

Here's something I still don't understand: how do you tell which of over a dozen models (a 6670 which seems a good candidate, has 15) of the same graphics card you should get?

Also, I don't think I'll be getting any RAM upgrades for my current computer because it apparently uses DDR1, thus anything I get, unlike the graphics card or power supply, would be unusable with the next one.

EDIT1: OK, after consulting my parents it seems likely that instead of getting a new desktop they'd get a new laptop. So I guess I will be getting those RAM upgrades (and sometime in the future I think I'll build my own PC and reuse the card and PSU, but far enough into the future than I don't mind spending some on RAM).

The most I can increase my RAM by is one GB and I have two empty slots. Is it better to fill each with a 512 MB chip or to fill one with a 1 GB chip?

EDIT2: Well, someone else has pointed me to a more significant snag: my motherboard doesn't have a PCIe x16 slot, which is what most any card better than what my laptop has would need.

edited 9th Jul '11 1:07:28 AM by thatother1dude

Price, on both counts. Oh, maybe cooling options if that's an issue (fan noise, etc…) for you.

edit: Unless the link you posted is wrong, that's baloney. The Gateway page distinctly says “PCI-E x16: 1”. Also, PCIe 1.x, 2.x, & 3.x are all backward compatible.

Eric,

edited 9th Jul '11 1:11:08 AM by EricDVH

Well that's what PC Wizard says after scanning my motherboard.

If I don't have an x16 lane and a graphics card requires one, doesn't that mean the card and board are physically incapable of connecting?

Also, would it help my laptop significantly with playing these games if I upgraded its RAM from 3 GB to 4 GB?

Sheesh. Get out your manual (I imagine you can download it from Gateway's site if you lost the hardcopy,) pop open the machine, and see if you've got an x16 slot, here's a picture of one.

Eric,