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Examples need to be culled, or description needs to be expanded: The Ruins I Caused get usage counts

It's all a conspiracy.
I noticed something about this page while trying to clean up Chrono Crusade's wicks. The description implies that this trope is only about a character surveying ruins they themselves are responsible for, usually during the destruction themselves:

->"Effectively this trope is when a character brings destruction to a rather large structure and escapes, typically by the skin of their teeth, in time to manage to get a good view from above of the destruction taking place. Scenery Gorn tends to ensue."

However, it seems like at least some of the examples assume it's just any character overlooking destruction from a height, whether or not they were responsible for it or if the destruction is even recent. Take a look at the Fullmetal Alchemist example or the Fallout3 example to get an idea of what I mean.

So I'm wondering—is the description too narrow, or do these examples need to be cut? It seems to me like the description itself should be expanded to just be any character looking over any ruins since I think that's probably a trope in itself and the name makes it sound like that's what it is, but maybe the examples I mentioned are just plain incorrect?

edited 4th Jul '11 2:40:38 PM by BrightBlueInk

Current project: Cleaning up the Chrono Crusade examples one at a time. God help me.
 2 Louie W, Mon, 3rd Oct '11 6:28:33 PM from Babycowland
Loser
I think "being responsible for the destruction" is an important part of the trope since the effect of watching an evil lair that you just destroyed blow up seems to convey something quite a bit different from merely looking at some ruins. I feel like the former is supposed to give one a sense of accomplishment while the latter can be quite depressing.

I am not sure whether that is grounds for a split or just some example trimming, but in any event I do not think the latter type of examples fit with the trope as it is. I would be interested to hear what other people think though.

edited 3rd Oct '11 6:29:14 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
I fully agree that those examples don't fit the trope. How many of them are there? If it looks like its own trope (people looking over ruins of places they didn't destroy), I'd support a split.

What name would the new trope have? Above Some Ruins? Probably a trope rename to avoid confusion would also be necessary, something like Above The Destruction, or something else depicting that the character is not only looking at ruins, he's looking how the structure becomes ruins in real time. The Ruins I Caused or something like that.

The Ruins I Caused sounds like a good rename.

Characters randomly looking at any ruins isn't a trope, unless we can state a common purpose behind the scenes - one beyond Scenery Porn / Scenery Gorn, which are already tropes.

 5 Native Jovian, Tue, 4th Oct '11 9:09:36 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
I'd say make Above The Ruins a subtrope of Scenery Gorn, with the specification that it's specifically about looking down from a height at ruins that have personal meaning to the character (eg, it's their Doomed Hometown), with the current definition of Above The Ruins a subtrope of that where the character themselves were the one who destroyed the ruins in question. Not sure what the best name for that would be, though — Surveying Your Handiwork is too broad, but something like Surveying Your Destruction doesn't sound like the right trope. Surveying Your Destructive Handiwork, maybe? It's a bit of a mouthful...
 6 nrjxll, Sun, 27th Nov '11 1:21:10 AM Relationship Status: Not war
Bump.

Incidentally, part of the trope you're proposing already exists as Watching Troy Burn.

 7 Native Jovian, Thu, 1st Dec '11 7:12:18 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
So it does. I guess we'd make it a subtrope of that, then? IE:

edited 1st Dec '11 7:12:55 AM by NativeJovian

 8 Louie W, Fri, 2nd Dec '11 2:21:24 PM from Babycowland
Loser

Index/Other
  • Action Adventure Tropes
  • Ending Tropes
  • Newsletter/News2010-05- 20
  • Spectacle
  • Trope Names For A Band
  • Es/Video Juegos

Characters Looking At Destruction They Caused/Help Cause (Correct Use)
  • After Action Villain Analysis
  • Castlevania
  • Video Game/Castlevania
  • Video Game/Castlevania Rondo Of Blood
  • Castlevania RPG
  • Castlevania The Adventure
  • Manga/Chrono Crusade
  • Collapsing Lair
  • Death Is Cheap
  • Recap/Doctor Who NSS 4 E 2 The Fires Of Pompeii (Indirectly and not in the heroic sense)
  • Heartwarming/Fight Club
  • Characters/Mega Man X
  • Scenery Porn
  • Shinobi
  • Top Gear/Tropes A-M (not a heroic example)

Characters Looking At Ruins/Being Above Ruins In General (Misuse)
  • Advancing Wall Of Doom
  • Blade Of Toshubi
  • Fatal-A Novel Of Corrupted Innocence
  • Gangs Of New York
  • Manga/Jyu Oh Sei
  • Legion Of Nothing
  • Video Game/Sonic Adventure
  • Taken For Granite
  • The Constant
  • The Sky Tides
  • The World Is Just Awesome
  • Watching Troy Burn

Unclear/Not Familiar With Work/Lack Of Context
  • Film/Battlefield Earth
  • Manga/Beelzebub
  • Characters/Cerberus Daily News Crimson Chains (Probably Misuse)
  • Video Game/Chrono Trigger
  • Kunio Tachi No Banka
  • Lost Magic
  • Mass Effect 1
  • Video Game/Metro 2033
  • Literature/The Sword Of Shannara Trilogy
  • The Time Machine
  • Anime/Trigun
  • We Are The Strange

Unfortunately, I found a number of examples difficult to decipher and there quite a fit I did not feel comfortable evaluating because of a lack of familiarity with the work. Still, even if one assumes that all of the unclear examples are correct uses of the trope as it is currently defined, 12 out of the 45 wicks are misuse, a rate of about 26.7%. Excluding the index wicks and the unclear wicks entirely, there is a 15/12 correct use to misuse ratio.

I am not sure if this means the trope should be renamed or just expanded since many of the examples of misuse seemed to be about looking at ruins, just not ones that one had caused.

edited 2nd Dec '11 2:22:05 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
I agree with Routerie — just looking at some ruins isn't a trope. The current narrow definition should stay.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
@6 & 7: As far as I can tell, the difference between Above The Ruins and Watching Troy Burn is who caused the destruction: the watching protagonist or a villain.
@ 8: I'd agree with a rename of ATR.
 
 11 Louie W, Wed, 8th Feb '12 11:27:19 AM from Babycowland
Loser
There is now a page action crowner for this trope here. Feel free to add options as you see fit.
Above The Ruins found in: 48 articles, excluding discussions.

Since January 1, 2011 this article has brought 167 people to the wiki from non-search engine links.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
Bump for votes.
 
 13 shimaspawn, Sun, 12th Feb '12 2:21:05 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I do sort of like the idea of a trope transplant. The scenery gorn thing is a real trope and staring down at ruins doesn't seem to be limited to people who caused them. Horrified survivors also frequently do this.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
bump, and I added a description of the issue to the crowner.

Rebump. Maybe we could call this even though there are only eleven votes?
 
 16 Meta Four, Tue, 3rd Apr '12 1:42:17 PM from the house of bread and battle
AXTUCE MUN AXTE INCAL
Calling crowner.
 17 Septimus Heap, Sun, 6th May '12 2:32:26 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
We need alt-names suggestions here. I can't tell very weel whether those already mentioned are dialogue-like and thus not allowed, unfortunately.

 18 ccoa, Thu, 7th Jun '12 6:51:44 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Clocking due to lack of activity.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 19 Willbyr, Mon, 11th Jun '12 9:41:28 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Alt titles crowner hooked...hitting the snooze.

edited 11th Jun '12 9:41:42 AM by Willbyr

 20 Septimus Heap, Mon, 11th Jun '12 1:05:52 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Added two more options to have some non-"I" or "Your"-containing candidates.

 21 RJ Savoy, Mon, 11th Jun '12 3:12:47 PM from Edinburgh Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Reymmă
"Caused" doesn't seem quite right, but I can't think of the appropriate verb. ("Felled" would suit if the subject were the buildings, but not the ruins themselves.) Otherwise "The Ruins I Caused" seems best.

Should we have a general trope for someone surveying a scene of carnage, or destruction, or just terminal decay, with the condition that this is relevant to the plot or setting and not just a background? Or is there one already?
 22 Septimus Heap, Mon, 11th Jun '12 3:17:16 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Repeating a question made earlier: Is The Ruins I Caused and the "you" stuff dialogue, and thus prohibited by No New Stock Phrases?

 23 ccoa, Thu, 26th Jul '12 9:34:44 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Bumping for votes.

Regarding the question, I don't know. I'll bring it up with the other mods.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 24 Septimus Heap, Thu, 26th Jul '12 10:07:36 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
In retrospection, it seems more like a self-reference but not an actual Stock Phrase / dialog. I still prefer Self Caused Ruins

But the ruins didn't cause themselves. A person did. So why "self"?

edited 26th Jul '12 10:41:17 AM by Routerie

Alternative Titles: Above The Ruins
11th Jun '12 6:29:29 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
Total posts: 60
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