Thomas Ball

The facts were these: A man's daughter was licking his hand, so he slapped her. His wife was informed that if she didn't report him to the police, she would get arrested for child abuse, too. So she reported him. He was arrested, but found not guilty of DV. His wife divorced him.

He was ordered to get counseling, but refused, because he thought that the courts were being unfair to him. Because of this, he wasn't allowed to see his daughters unsupervised.

He killed himself last week. He was behind on child support payments, and was ordered to go to court. Instead, he committed suicide in front of the courthouse by burning himself.

The media is making this guy out to be a psycho, while some Men's Rights Activists are making him out to be a hero and a martyr. What do you think?

"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.

He wasn't a psycho, but he did seem to be a bit unhinged. He wasn't a martyr, but he was treated unfairly. But ultimately, his choices are what led to what happened. His choice to hit his daughter, his choice to not seek treatment.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

I think there's a bit more than those facts to the story, at the least, it seems to have been more than one slap.

Anyone who kills them self over such an ostensibly asinine reason is just a goddamn loon, in my book.

Not being allowed to see your own child is asinine?

The above was my first thought, and I sort of stick by it. Still the guys suicide note does indicate the man had problems. If it were possible to take it at face value I'd call it injustice but even without reading anything else on the subject I can imagine various scenario's where the other parties involved acted correctly.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

If he was a woman he wouldn't have been arrested.

Heck, people might agree with the discipline.

edited 28th Jun '11 9:57:24 AM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

^

Agreed.

Fucked up man. He probably killed himself because he was in a depression over being unable to pay his child support payments and being so financially burdened.

I understand, and fully sympathize, with the guy getting dicked around by the child custody system for being a guy. Hoever, when you slap your kid hard enough to make them bleed, you have issues.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

^^^ I think a woman would have been arrested, if she used a similar level of violence against a child.

I sympathize with this guy. Sure, he got carried away and slapped his daughter but there is no other proof that he was abusive (I don't think he did the right thing but it sometimes happens). I don't know if he deserved custody or not be he definitely desrved to be allowed to see his daughter and I don't think this one time accident was enough to force him to get psychological treatment. While I don't think that setting himself on fire was a good way of getting his point across, I understand his grief.

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

I agree that there's probably more to this than we know. You don't divorce your husband for slapping your child the once, especially when you appear not to have disagreed with it, even if the consequences were unpleasant. Any chance of a link with more info?

On what Leigh tells us, I doubt this guy was a major menace to society because he smacked his daughter, got divorced and fell behind with child support. It's a shame he felt the only solution was to kill himself.

edited 28th Jun '11 10:14:21 AM by captainbrass2

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

He hit the kid enough for her to bleed. Thats... pretty serious guys. I sympathise with the man for his fate, but... I mean I guess it was an accident, but... argh.

The fact he was hitting the kid in the first place doesn't exactly speak in the guys defence. And thats a whole other debate.

I find myself on a particularly jagged fence here, with mines on either side.

edited 28th Jun '11 10:17:39 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

The guy had some serious domination and entitlement issues that came through loud and clear. Much of the story stems from that, I think.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

@melloncollie: No, it didn't even sound like violence. Or, people wouldn't be as concerned with a woman using violent discipline then a man.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

Anyone have a source on this that isn't a men's rights blog?

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

What, we can't have our own opinions?

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

You're more than welcome to your own opinions, I was just looking for a news source that isn't likely to be biased one way or another.

I've never heard of the guy, so I was hoping to read up on some details before forming an opinion.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

^^ No, but it's a biased source.

You can have opinions derived from sources. Opinion-corrupted sources are bad sources.

D: Ninjas.

edited 28th Jun '11 1:16:15 PM by AllanAssiduity

I still don't have a source. I just read the OP's post and formulated my opinion based on that.

edited 28th Jun '11 4:07:25 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

Do you have kids? I ask because having to raise children usually gives people different ideas of what constitutes proper discipline. I disagree with the idea that hitting a child ever is wrong, but if you're drawing blood, then something is wrong.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

It's not so much that the hitting her is wrong (although I'm pretty anti-corporeal punishment), it's the circumstances in which it happened. Slapping a kid for licking your hand? The only reason I believe that is because he wrote it himself. Otherwise I would think it's just trying to slander someone. Simply not believable. That's how extreme it is to me.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

I'm not sure it's even possible to find out truth in this: the guy's dead, his writings are those of someone planning to kill themselves by fire — not exactly a mark of rational thought — and the professionals who know of the case are bound by professional ethics to not talk about it.

That he speaks casually of slapping his 4 year old child hard enough to bleed for licking him, and without much sign of remorse for his actions, I do find fairly indicative if it is an accurate reflection of his state of mind earlier (rather than after he'd lost it enough to want to kill himself) — but there's no way to tell for sure.

A brighter future for a darker age.

Indeed, I could understand accidentally hitting somebody hard enough to cause them to bleed, especially from the lip, and after being bit, but I can also see how it could be abusive.

But hey, you're concerned about your local social services department, get thee to policy meeting!

Alright, fair enough. I'm a 20 year old who certainly doesn't have any kids and probably isn't for some time, so forgive my ignorance.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

Slapping someone hard enough for them to bleed sounds a lot like violence to me.

The reason you don't hear a lot about women getting arrested for this is because everyone knows they don't have any upper strength.