Philippine Politics

This. Say what you want about the Church's power (I tend to think it's not that bad for the country in itself, see below), but they're better than the rich oligarchs. And sometimes, in their own way, they manage to come up with secular arguments for their agenda (for example, the RH debacle is on hiatus once people found out it's a pretty steep price tag for the problem it intends to solve, which managed to convince a lot of seculars against it). Not to mention the Catholic Church is only as powerful as the citizenry make it - and in a world where rich oligarchs and feudal landowners have a history of not being exactly good for Juan de la Cruz, the Church has moral authority, at least outside Muslim Mindanao (there, Islam has the same function). Not to mention that from my view of things, a lot of the anticlericalism tends to come from the richest sectors of society, as a smokescreen to somehow absolve (no pun intended) themselves from actually accepting the structural changes needed to develop the country (land reform, more investment in infrastructure and education, proper economic liberalization and decartelization). Not to mention that the problem isn't the Church's end, but the fact that conditions discourage the formation of other segments of civil society like labor unions and actual political parties (though the latter seems to be improving).

Anyway, I don't think the problems of the country stem from the Revolution per se, but from the inability of the country to get rid of the last elements of Marcosism from social life, whether you're talking the economy, politics or the Army. In other words, it's that the Revolution didn't go far enough. And I say this as someone who spent his childhood there and who keeps in contact with relatives from the Old Country.

Nevertheless, having large social problems doesn't mean you shouldn't be proud of your country.

edited 1st Jul '11 6:46:46 PM by Cojuanco

It's probably because the Revolution was a plot by the Thermidor oligarchs anyway - the goal wasn't to truly restore democracy but simply change the person at the helm. Cory was a willing puppet in that regard.

Eh, not a fan of the French Revolution analogies. I'm thinking more Chile after Pinochet. Of course, Pinochet didn't abscond with large parts of the treasury. Otherwise, the root of the problem is similar - impunity.

I wouldn't call Cory a puppet, either - just someone who was faced with Napoleons every other month.

edited 3rd Jul '11 1:30:03 PM by Cojuanco

The key difference is that none of the wannabe Napoleons succeeded - the government was too entrenched and had the people's trust.

Eh, it's screwed up, yes (though not as bad as the coup-a-week era), but trying to bring back the Early Marcos Era (as some people thing the solution should be) is just going to make things worse. Me, what I'd propose, is land reform like they did in South Korea, end the Filipino-owner requirement for setting up business, privatize most of the GO Cs or at least make them more autonomous, legalize the Communist Party, and for crying out loud fix the roads.

at least O Ps link wasnt 'antipinoy' or w/e that site was.

Yes.

Pretty much.

Yes.

Like it isn't already (see the various leftist groups in the Lower House)

A-MEN.

When people start complaining about how bad this goddamn country is, I always say, "Well this ain't North Korea." And I'm not about to put in "at least", because, I don't view it as a bad thing.

I've always found interesting that Pinoys outside the PI tend to like it more than the Pinoys that live there.

Indeed - we should learn to count our blessings.

It's greener grass syndrome at work here.

Oh, I'm not saying the grass is greener - I'm just saying that it is nowhere beyond repair - all it needs is someone who spends less time picking pointless fights with the Church, and more time repairing roads and railroads (seriously, we had a good rail system once before the Japanese ruined things, and PNR still owns right-of-way), increasing compulsory education standards, liberalizing the economy, and generally stop interfering with the enterprising nature of the Filipino. The fact that even uneducated people can make it abroad but not in the Old Country shows it isn't the people's fault - it's the fault of the feudal elite that's now paranoid enough that they'd rather screw even the Church than give up their power. And TBH, the Americans aren't helping, with all the strings they have on foreign aid.

Erm... I'm Filipino. And as much as I love this country, I genuinely believe the Philippines is and will forever be a hopeless case. There is not one cancer affecting the society, there are several.

First, the rampant uneducatedness of the masa. Education = jobs. Uneducation = poverty. That much is certain.

Which leads to the second: the prolonged power trip of the oligarchy. Uneducated people vote almost solely by face/name/brand recognition, hence the political dynasties plaguing the country. It is said that less than 300 families control the comings and goings of the entire Philippines.

This of course, is influenced in varying degrees by number three: excessive Church influence. This is not to say that all Church influence is bad, e.g. Cardinal Sin, the only person in Manila who could get away with denouncing the Marcos regime's climate of fear, the so-called "Cardinal of EDSA". (He would later go on to say that "we thought corruption would end with the fleeing of the ousted dictator 'Ali Baba', and yet there are still forty thieves here.")

When the State mistreats his citizens, the Church must speak out and step in. When the Church mistreats her flock, the State must uphold the law and step in. Neither of them should infringe upon the domain of the other. Neither should either of them misinform the people.

Fourth: excessive nationalism. This PROUD TO BE PINOY thinking dumbs down the people, telling them that their status quo is acceptable. Thus they do nothing more than what is expedient. (Also has the effect of opposing globalization, thus preventing creation of more jobs.)

Fifth: Kanya-kanya syndrome. AKA Every Man For Himself. This kind of thinking gave rise to cronyism, rule of the clans, etc. The order of priority for a Filipino is often Myself, My Family, My Friends, My Barangay, My Town/City, My Province, My Region, My Country. Heroic selflessness is dead in this country.

Hence why I've given up on the Philippines. As they say in Filipino, "walang pag-asa ang Pilipinas."

Wait, the only good priest in town was called Cardinal Sin?

My word.

Hold on a minute here, partner.

Cardinal Sin?

edited 10th Aug '12 10:49:38 AM by TheBatPencil

Chinese name, but His Eminence would make jokes about his residence being a House of Sin...

And what's wrong with patriotism or loving one's own?

His full name was Jaime Lachica Sin. (辛, Xin in Chinese, but we Filipinos don't use an X in surnames) Yes, he joked about his name, calling his residence the "House of Sin". Sometime aorund the period when Pope John Paul II was shot in 1981, there were rumors that he could be a potential favorite (papabile) for pope should John Paul II die. He dismissed these rumors, saying "I would not make a good pope. For one thing, my name is bad."

Excessive nationalism makes for the mass outrage responses seen at such things as this, The Daily Show controversy involving Cory Aquino, and the rage when Jessica Sanchez and Manny Pacquiao lost. Factor in the aggressiveness regarding the Scarborough Shoal controversy, and yeah overnationalism starts resembling 1930s-Germany. Also, it leads to things like STOP US IMPERIALISM and stuff like that which you see in UP. Nationalism is dead. Globalization is the new thing.

Love of self is a good thing. Individualism, standing up for yourself, that is good. but taken to excess, ingraining it in your mentality, leads to selfishness and greed and egotism.

Food for thought (though I disagree with some of the views espoused in this video - blaming the descendants for the sins of the ancestors):

edited 10th Aug '12 11:32:01 PM by ArgentumUranium

Nice to meet fellow Pinoys here. I'm one of Chinese origin and I too share of the sentiments here, even though organizations are saying the Philippines is a rising Asian Tiger. I'm on to believe that it'll come in a long time.

- I think this is talking about the Maoist Communist Party. The Marxist 1930 Communist Party is already recognized IIRC.

And this is a bad thing? Heaven knows our countrymen need to be passionate, else we'll never pull ourselves out of this malaise.

You yourself have said that the Philippines is a hopeless case. Well, it certainly is going to stay that way unless we get our act together. I'd say if our nationalism ever reaches the levels Germany reached in 1936, that's a major step to fixing the mess that our country is in now.

And if that means that we must do terrible things to secure our destiny as a power in the world, then so be it. After all, in the final account, it is history that will judge us and our generation's deeds. And they will know that we did what we had to do.

edited 16th Apr '13 5:05:36 AM by Icarael

The ends do not justify the means, Icarael.

If you guys do attempt to do terrible things to secure your place as a power, you will be stopped.

But if we want to become a powerful country, we need something we can unite against. It can be as bad as Hitler's war for Aryan supremacy, or can be as good as anything BUT that.

One, we have China. But how can flimsy wooden boats and rafts and old crappy planes and ships fight against an entire army with high-tech weapons, planes, and ships? Shall we send our very own 5-year-old fire esper (Yes, we have something like that, she's from Davao, btw) in the front lines?

Two, in case World War III erupts, I hope it doesn't, we can offer ourselves to the cause. But thing is, why would we do that? So we can try to stop North Korea and China from conquering us? For an empty stomach, that's not a good enough reason.

But as Nick says, if you try to do terrible things just to promote national unity, you will be stopped. There must be other ways than that and every single fight of Pac-Man (no, not that one) to promote national unity.

edited 16th Apr '13 9:44:23 PM by judasmartel

Do we need power as much as we simply need respect?

As I see it, Nick, there is no difference between what is right and what is necessary. When the situation in this country is this desperate, anything— and I mean anything— becomes a rational alternative.

That is the problem. We lack might and rely on the United States to cover for us. Contrast Malaysia and Singapore, who have armies of their own. In other words, the only way I can see towards a better tomorrow is through raw might, odious though I think it may be.

Also I don't get the To Aru reference.

Power begets fear. Fear begets respect. Least that's how I figure it.

edited 17th Apr '13 12:03:45 AM by Icarael

I'm a pure-blooded Pinoy born in the States, and have lived in the Philippines throughout my entire high school life. It's a pretty fucked up place, though even it has some good things that I look back onto fondly (the friends I've made and some of those awesome arcades I've been to). Overall, I don't really miss living in that cesspool of a country, but I do miss the friends I made and my father who lives there. I'm also not that proud of being Pinoy, because "proud to be Pinoy" has lost its meaning to me long ago.

You should better strive to secure position as a medium Asian power than dream to be an empire rivaling Chinese. Every country has its limitations, but it is certain that the Philippines could be in much, much better shape if peaceful economic and political reforms are applied. But it only depends on Filipinos themselves.

edited 17th Apr '13 3:10:35 AM by CaptainKatsura

@Icarael:

Most Filipinos I know, even the more nationalistic ones, no longer wish to see power gained via military or through cut-throat politics. The bitter memories of Ferdinand Marcos and his wife are still fresh in the hearts and minds of many, which would make any sort of military-style proposal extremely divisive. And the tons of protests made against Arroyo whenever she made ANY sort of political move shows the people just don't trust the politicians or the government anymore out of fear of corruption or the passing of an unpopular law.

Instead, the Catholic church and the tons of TV celebrities seems to have more sway and influence over the populace and what gets passed into law and what doesn't. Manny Pacquiao is proof of this: tons of Pinoys, especially of the poorer and less educated classes, would pretty much support anything he said, even if it was downright stupid or made no economic sense.