Not a trope: Nipple And Dimed

According to this article's laconic, this is a trope about how media can safely display breasts in general but cannot show nipples. Fine. Sounds like we could have an article on that.

But an accurate laconic for the article's actual description would be simply: "Nipples." That is not a trope. It is a part of the body.

The page's examples cover no particular trope. There are examples of nudity that obscure the nipples, which is what the laconic definition implies. And then there are... scored of examples of just plain nipples. And some of nipples through clothing.

Was this trope ever what the laconic says it is? Should we revert it, deleting 95 percent of the article?

Edit: I have reworked the description and deleted most of the article, but many bad wicks remain. A quick wick check:

• Dantes Inferno: Lists an aversion.
• Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team: Misuse.
• Victoria'sSecretCompartment: Unclear how it's being used.
• I Read That As/A-F: Meaningless inclusion.
• Across The Universe: Misuse.
• YMMV: Agent Aika: Misuse.
• Alone In The Dark: Misuse; refers to the absence of nudity but nothing specifically to do with nipples.
• Amazonian Beauty: Apparently misuse, but I'm not sure.
• American Beauty: Would be correct with a little rewording.
• Anatomy of Hell: Misuse.
• Angel: Lists an aversion.
• Fanservice/Anime: Lists a "subversion," which does not make sense.
• Values Dissonance/Anime: Misuse.
• Anime Anatomy: Misuse.
• Beauty And Warrior: Lists an aversion.
• Film/Beowulf: Correct.
• Bikini Bar: Correct.
• Bitch Slap: Correct.
• Biting-the-Hand Humor: Almost correct, but more about general censorship.
• Black Mama White Mama: Lists an aversion.
• Brain Powerd: Unclear.
• Brows Held High: Correct.
• Building12: Misuse.
• Californication: Misuse.
• Series/Camelot: Misuse.

So that's about 20% correct use.

edited 15th Jul '11 7:31:42 AM by Routerie

I think it counts as a trope, specifically one stemming from Censorship.

The description is fine, but seems to be frequently misunderstood to mean "nipples". Which makes it not fine.

I say we rewrite the description to be less clever and more clear to avoid future misuse, then take the big axe to the example list.

I'm with Peccantis. A less obtuse name would help, something like Cover Those Nipples.

I would suggest "Aureola Event Horizon", if it wasn't such a bad snowclone.

I think the best name would be "It's Not Nudity If You Don't See The Nipples", but in fewer words.

Not Naked Without Nipples

Not Nudity Without Nipples or No Nipples No Nudity

I can see renaming this, as the name is jokey at the expense of clarity. I'd go for something like Hide Your Nipples.

Naughty Nipples? No Nipples No Nudity is kind of cool, it should be made into a redirect at least.

edited 16th Jun '11 1:32:25 PM by peccantis

Never mind.

edited 16th Jun '11 1:44:19 PM by Ultimatum

I like Hide Your Nipples.

Hide Your Nipples is okay, ant the connotations from Hide Your Lesbians aren't confusing either.

Well it's a name format where the matching words are also about matching concepts.

There's nothing really wrong with the title. What's much more of a problem is that the description at no point clearly expresses what the trope is. Yes, you can check the laconic entry, but the main description should contain at least a couple of sentences that explain what it is.

It's not a very good title, I concur with the rename. Hide Your Nipples is much better.

Nipple and Dimed found in: 207 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 3,117 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

The report includes a mention of misuse. Any estimates on how widespread? I'd recommend fixing the description and cleaning the examples before leaping to rename with a trope this well-established.

I admit the examples don't really follow any consistent pattern, but it's not like (most) people are just listing any sighting of a nipple, It's more like a wide range of examples showing how censorship varies depending on Medium and region (but not Demographic).

Examples are currently like this:

• Manga X coudn't before, but since it moved to Shonen Mag Y we now see one every few chapters.
• Anime Z had nipples in Japan, but their were all edited out for the US Dub, since it was Harmfulto Minors.
• Series A uses Anime Anatomy but the whole breast still gets censored anyway.
  • They come back in The Movie.
• County B doesn't have this problem.
  • It's banned in county C because of this.
• In Work G the decapitation and dismemberment scenes were all okay but the nipple in that Shower Scene got it pulled from stores.

I don't think we need to cut everything that doesn't follow the "Show 1 censors them this way" examples.

And yes, maybe it's how description is written, but I do see this as a trope about nipples...and how they're treated in different media.

edited 14th Jul '11 11:46:33 AM by No9

Maybe we need to change the thread title to reflect that we are no longer debating tropability, but whether we should rename or rewrite the description. Incidentally, does Nipple and Dimed as it stands now cover fictional characters actually using pasties to cover their nipples?

I say we go ahead and get a single prop crowner up.

I think we're a long way from making a solid case for renaming.

That's why I said "whether we should".

By the way, when was the image was put on? I thought it was one of those pages that were deemed image-less because of heated debate.

It used to be a female breast with a censor bar over the nipple only.

It actually was a demonstration of the trope, which means pulling it is a subversion.

Was there an Image Pickin thread for the current image (of a bird)?

I don't think there's any problem with the name. It's not perfect, but it's clever and illustrative of the meaning (getting fined for showing nipples).

The misuse, on the other hand...