The Pledge of Allegiance

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I think it needs to die, now.

There is nothing "free" about using peer pressure to force kids to swear allegiance to a government and a god in school every day. And there are teachers who have given kids detention for not standing during the Pledge.

For those of you who don't know, all students of all ages in America have to say the Pledge of Allegiance at school. Even though they technically have a constitutional right to remain sitting, a lot of teachers and administrators ignore this and use their power to force kids to say the pledge under threat of punishment. There are also a lot of dumbass "patriots" who think that anyone who doesn't say the Pledge is a Dirty Communist, a Hollywood Atheist, or a Bomb Throwing Anarchist, probably all three. And a terrorist sympathizer to boot.

Discuss.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:01:07 PM by LilPaladinSuzy

You need a fact check. I grew up in the states and I wasn't forced to do anything.

Dude. I grew up in the states, and one of my teachers did give a classmate detention for refusing to say the Pledge.

Obviously, the US and its schools are way too diverse to make a generilzation about, but someone with an anecdote like that doesn't necessarily need "a fact check". There is a lot of peer pressure to do the pledge, and while it's not as bad in my region with the detentions for refusing to rise, it does get a lot of glares and a chewing out from most teachers. It's simply annoying.

A pledge is something you say once, voluntarily, after a lot of thought to its implications. It's like a contract signed verbally. It is not supposed to be something you make kindergarteners say every damn day. I had no idea what allegiance meant for the first few years I was made to say the pledge in school. Without even getting into the religion issue, it's not right. I only get up and mumble it still in school to avoid being the center of negative attention. And I never say the "Under God" part, although only a few friends have noticed so far. But I'd rather get rid of it altogether.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:19:26 PM by OnTheOtherHandle

It varies from state to state and even school to school, but yeah, teachers abuse the hell out of their authority. I didn't have to say the pledge, we were just encouraged not to talk while others were saying it.

When I got to high school, I was FINALLY not forced into saying the pledge.

I remember getting a lot of shit from one of my teachers for staying silent during "under God", though, because he thought I was disrespecting the country, then the principal said that it was okay because I'm atheist.

But yes, it needs to die.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:24:43 PM by snowfoxofdeath

I hate God and the America!

I am really not a fan of this at all...

I have the same stance towards this as I do the indoctrination of children into the parents' religions. Kids aren't able to form their own opinions about religious issues that young. By the same token, they are also not able to form political opinions including those relating to national or ethnic identity. I can personally attest to this to a degree.

Under God? Correct me, but didn't the founding fathers say that America was supposed to be a secular state? That's what my History thingy told me. I think it did.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:35:26 PM by Inhopelessguy

That depends entirely on who's reading what by whom.

It does. The Americans put that in during the Red Scare as a point of propaganda against the godless Commies they were fighting.

Oh,..

Until about the 90s, every morning you had to do a prayer to God in assemblies. It wasn't law, but it was just a thing. We've stopped that now, mostly because it was to a Christian god, so Athiests and Muslims couldn't exactly join in. Now, we just do 'daily thoughts' instead, which seems nicer.

Under God was added during the 50s as a dig at communism.

Seriously, the pledge fooled me into thinking I was Christian until I was in third grade and my parents finally told me that I was Buddhist.

I think the whole pledge is a shameless piece of propaganda targeted at kids too young to know any better. It's not very effective to have history books that recognize your country's failings if what you say every single day makes it seem like a wonderland of liberty and justice. Not that the US is a bad place to live, I love it here, but "liberty and justice for all" haven't exactly been acheived completely, or even to a degree that satisfies most people, so I think it's a premature celebration we find in the pledge.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:39:52 PM by OnTheOtherHandle

I ain't no American, okay, well it says in the title... but it sounds pretty hypocritical. I'm all for patriotism - I'm a patriot - and national pride, but it seems a bit... jingoistic.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:42:44 PM by Inhopelessguy

I agree. It ingrains an overly simplistic view of things into young kids which they often take into adulthood, and gives the impression that you can't both love your country and criticize it.

@OP: You might want to get out from under that rock you're living; you don't have to say the pledge.

That depends entirely on where you live in the States. Having teachers tell you "Say the pledge or get punished" is more common than you'd think.

Where the fuck did you people go to school? I went to school on an Army base and we were never forced to say it; guess it's a civilian word issue.

Probably depends on the individual teacher.

Well, I grew up smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt.

Individual teachers may be more or less strict about it, but the general ethos tends to permeate through the school.

edited 14th Jun '11 9:20:01 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

I went to school in NC; guess it's a school thing.

I think it's a school thing or a regional thing. It's hard to say for sure though.

School thing would be the safer bet. Even the Bible Belt isn't completely homogeneous.