Who Cares About Men's Rights?

This feminist, apparently.

And she makes an excellent point about feminists sometimes getting too flippant when it comes to addressing men's issues. We can't be everywhere and do everything, but we at least owe it to our fellow human beings to show them the way. People who fight sexism against men and people who fight sexism against women are natural allies; why do we spend so much time at loggerheads?

Because there's too many "feminists" out there who blame men for everything.

I've also been arguing that feminism needs to care about sexism against men for a while now, and nobody else really seems to like the concept.

edited 10th Jun '11 3:26:43 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

So, that feminists lists all those things that sum up neatly into: 'I care about men when they aren't doing what is considered manly. When they do, I don't give a fuck' Not all the things that are 'manly' are inherently bad

@NZM: You might want to finish reading.

It would be pretty awesome if more feminists wrote pieces like this occasionally, and let the world know that sexism hurts men too, and feminism can help them. And if more of them very explicitly made the distinction between partiarchy and individual men. I'm sure many of them know in their head that they aren't insinuating that all men are opressive, but to the casual reader continuous mentions of partiarchy and male privilege makes it seem like they are misandrist.

I don't see how it's related. It has nothing to do with man who act 'manly'

She was concerned about all the important stuff: Men losing their kids, men's wages having remained stagnant since the 70s, men being discouraged from adequate medical care, men encouraged to man up and take it with stuff like major depression or PTSD...

Sorry, NZM, but she mentioned all the issues that manly men have, too. It's just that males who don't conform to gender roles have way more issues to begin with.

I don't think that's true. The only "feminists" I've ever seen who do this are either very young or psychologically damaged, and thus take an overly simplistic view of things. (The former usually grow out of it.) Women aren't immune from adopting a naive Girls Vs. Boys view of the world, and since both the feminists and the female supremacists have a goal of promoting women's welfare, people sometimes mistake them for one and the same. (Just as they misread "patriarchy" as "men" when feminists criticize the latter.)

@NZM:

A small sampling of the things that "manly men" have to deal with, and how she thinks it's wrong that they have to "tough it out".

@Kara: Unfortunately, I've met more than my fair share of feminists who do blame men, and argue that they don't need help because they're "privileged" and don't deserve it. It may be a vocal minority, but if that's so, then it's ruining the whole movement.

edited 10th Jun '11 3:43:09 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

Sorry, overlooked it. So, looks like a good cause - doesn't fight against 'manly men', doesn't fight against all men and actually wants to cooperate. I disagree with many things on this blog but here I can't

That entire post looks like a large chunk of common sense. We could do with more of that in the world.

Who are you and what have you done with Karalora.:P

Thanks for the link btw.

edited 10th Jun '11 3:51:35 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Both the blog post and Karalora's opening post hit the nail on the head. MRAs and feminists shouldn't be butting heads all the time, and in the former case, definitely shouldn't be behaving in a childish manner and doing nothing to actually improve things. They should be working together as a united force for gender equality.

If only such moments of perfect clarity could be had by all... major props, Karalora. Major props.

@post 3

I don't think she ever said anything about men acting manly and enjoying it because it's just not an issue. If you do, great, carry on then. But the point is to open the freedom to be/do whatever you want for everyone, instead of leaving only the door of "manly" open. I didn't get the sense at all that she was talking down on manly behavior.

I think the stuff about the current MRA movement might be a bit hyperbolic, but considering I've only really been exposed to it on the internet and never found much to make me want to label myself one(and that's putting it nicely), I can only hypothesize that.

Edit: like 6 posts popped up while writing this one, looks like I was late to the party.

edited 10th Jun '11 3:55:47 PM by Kashie

Nice read, thank you for sharing.

Back in the day I used to be what it's commonly known as "nice guy", I had girl friends (I still do), I cared about more than just getting laid with anything with a vagina, I hate the mexican culture of "manliness is measured by the ammount of women you've sleept with".

But then I simply said "fuck it" and went with it, my male friends celebrate my one-night stands, the same girls who rooted on me to cheat on my girlfriend (or who have cheated on their boyfriends with me) complain about their boyfriend cheating on them.

I have no right to tell my friends I'd like to sleep with them, but they have to right to tease me, a few months ago a girl I was (still am) in love with played with me, we got laid and then she dumped me, of course I can't complain because I'm a male and I got to get laid with a girl I liked.

When I had to choose between becoming the same kind of douche I hated and stay a lonely loser I decided to become the douche, I won't say it's not my foul, because I was the one who choose to become like this, but the alternative sucks.

edit: Oh yeah, I lost my virginity by pretending not to be a virgin, isn't that awesome?

edited 10th Jun '11 4:18:13 PM by redpyro

You could just get better friends? From the sounds of it, most of yours are not exactly the brightest bulbs in the lampshade.

And there is always a third option of staying as a decent human being but growing your confidence. What you have apparently chosen is the worst of both possible worlds.

No such thing as a "third option" in highschool, at least not in mexican ones.

But yeah, there's still the chance that there was one, I simply got tired of looking for it.

Also I don't blame my friends, they're awesome and never really teased me for being much less sexualy active than them, but at some point you feel out of place, loneliness is so strongh that when your friends congratulate you for getting laid with that hot girl in the party, you just want to be a "part of it", not just "accepted".

Goddamn, that sucks. -gives hug-

Also, this woman rocks, and has said everything that I ever wanted to say and even a little more. Give her high fives, fist bumps, gangster handshakes, everything.

This blog post is really great. I wish that everyone could just be for equal rights for everyone like I am. Like it said in there, EVERYONE has double standards against them. I don't think there is one group that doesn't. The hard part is that you can't defend everyone, even though that would be amazing if we could. I wish that more feminists would bring up men's rights every once in a while. I think most people just don't really think about it when there are more problems for women. We're all just too busy fighting our own battles to deal with everyone else's. Even though men's rights or gay rights don't benefit me, I fight for them because it is right, and everyone needs someone on their side. I mean, it just makes sense. I honestly don't understand how people say "Rape of men doesn't exist," or just let people hurt someone else. It drives me insane. Obviously it isn't right! How can people not see it, and just let it go on!?

Wow, that post sounded really like preachy or something. Sorry.

I guess people are more afraid of letting go of their stereotypes of men more so than they are of women.

All she said is,"I care for men who want to act like stereotyped women instead of stereotyped men". In other words,"I care for men who want to fall into my ideological program." Big deal.

Hey! Someone who hasn't actually read the article, great.

Ya know, I kind of like the role I've been given, and sometimes it does look like traditional masculinity is under assualt, but, while I don't like that there are men who want to wear dresses, I know that I can't use society as a tool to keep them from doing so.

So, I'm all for legal equality, conservative with a lot of the social aspects, but not really a masculinist or a feminist.

About the only thing that I'm genuienly bothered about on the male side of the gender divide is the draft. That's complete bunk.

I would, however, vocally support another attempt to get an ERA passed. I'd go to rallies for that.

edited 10th Jun '11 7:02:20 PM by HungryJoe

And she makes an excellent point about feminists sometimes getting too flippant when it comes to addressing men's issues. We can't be everywhere and do everything, but we at least owe it to our fellow human beings to show them the way. - Karalora

That is refreshing to see. And what is with the can't-be-everywhere argument in the first place? How if at all does it justify fighting something like average wage gaps without fighting the arguably more dire issues like men being turned away from homeless shelters, or domestic abuse against men? Granted, the direness of double standard is a technically subjective matter, but when it gets to the point of putting fighting the average wage gap ahead of fighting double standards against men in the context of poverty and abuse, can you blame me for thinking they want an advantage rather than equality? That they say they do not have to fight for men's rights is not helping their case. If they really cared about equality, their focus would be on inequality in EITHER direction.

...

As for the article itself, I would like to think it is fairly obvious that I find it VERY refreshing. Especially to see from someone who is both a woman and a feminist. I have no idea why the single largest and most politically powerful movement about gender issues would have anything to say about gender issues that apply to half the fucking population hit the nail right on the head; good people use their political momentum on behalf of those who have less of it, which exactly goes to show how good a person that article writer is.

Personally, I think compassion and integrity are more important than whatever movement one is in, and this article writer expresses plenty of it. As the reactions to her article come in, we will see who values those qualities of hers more, and who values petty disagreements with some of her points more. At the end of the day, this will be a good filtration to separate the better people (of any ideologies) from the worse.

One part I disagree with is the claim towards the end that the head of a real MRA movement must be a man. I doubt that would work. Many feminists would still be dismissive, and many masculists would interpret this as a problem with feminism, keeping the cycle in place. I would think that she of all people would anticipate this. There are pros and cons to a woman heading the MRA movement of course, but I do think a female leader would be better overall, if only for the symbolic value of a female show of solidarity with males.

But again, I applaud her compassion and integrity above all else. At the end of the day, that is ultimately the main thing.