Help in a Military Raid Scene.

My story opens up with a squad of 8 raiding a building in Hashima◊ Island in order to find a drug/human trafficker. I never wrote such scene before and I need some help.

First, the operation takes place during a fierce rainstorm. Assuming that the military technology in my verse several decades ahead of real world's, would it be able to pass through such weather? What would be the most ideal brand of helicopter in a mission that requires relative stealth (although because of the weather, it wouldn't be too much of a matter)? Lastly, can any attack helicopter can have more than 10 passengers?

Second, magic (I call it Augmentation) coexists in my verse and at the rooftop of a building, stands a Augmenter who can sense any intruder through rain. The squad knows that the range is at most a kilometer. Here's the question: would it possible/plausible for the helicopter to open the door (in a stormy weather) so the sniper can shoot the target?

Third, would the sniper be able to hide the sound of the gunshot with a silencer when fired during a thunder? And would anyone not notice the sound of helicopter right outside their window if it's dark enough and busy taunting someone?

Magic must defeat magic.

Ah yes Roy I read your other thread.

But anyway...

The bullet must be cloaked in some way and so does the chopper.

But if you really want cool have a shadowy spec ops agent with good knife skills leaping out and do an instant death stab. It will be a stunning scene if translated to a visual medium should you decide to present the story with illustrations, in a short film, or in video game.

PS: Your story has some elements similar to mine. I think we could help each other out. I'm currently working on the super-power nations that are the factions in this fantasy world war.

edited 28th May '11 9:41:18 PM by Worlder

Well, you'd have to get close to the building and enter it if you want to do some stabbing...

That sounds way more like a police raid than a military raid.

Magic might help, but a kilometer-long shot in a storm, from a chopper, is quite the miracle. Here are the elements you'd have to overcome:

• Stabilize the helicopter; this must be very well done, as the zoom at your ranges will lead to crazy shake of your very small field of view. Use magic or advanced tech to counter wind as well as mechanical motion, or there's no chance of landing a shot at 1,000 meters.
• Compensate for distance, rain, and different wind speed at different ranges. Possible but difficult if character is a very good and experienced sniper.
• Have a very good scope, and preferably a spotter with something similar; both need night-vision with a very high magnification (20-40x) is good, although variable ranges usually go lower on the bottom end. Magnification won't be a problem, but you might want to use magic for seeing at night, or have the target backlit by a convenient source of light.
• Have a proper rifle. At these ranges, you want something large-caliber and custom-built for sniping as opposed to general-purpose shooting, such as the McMillan Tac-50 or the Accuracy International AS 50.
• Match grade rounds. Something machined from solid pieces of metal is your best bet for design. Avoid tracers or anything beside a basic full metal jacket boat-tail round, as they tend to fly irregularly.
• Muzzle blast isn't a problem- at 1,000 meters, it won't be audible, especially during thunder and the sound of rain.

edited 28th May '11 11:05:06 PM by Morgulion

Huh, can police squad be authorized to kill? Don't know much on how they work.

EDIT: Ninja'd. How the hell can you Ninja a short post with a long one?

Your post made me realized how unknowledgeable I am in this field...

What about the helicopter? What is the most appropriate one?

edited 28th May '11 10:13:24 PM by dRoy

Brand of helicopter? Is that really an issue? Are you using real-world names for some reason?

However, an attack helicopter is not what you think. An attack helicopter uses weapons on the helicopter, it doesn't deliver assault troops.

You want a transport helicopter, or an assault helicopter. One of those could certainly carry a squad of that size, or slightly larger. Some of the largest could carry over 50, but I doubt you would want one of those on a rainy night. I suppose you could say something like the Hind blends both roles, though.

edited 28th May '11 10:21:18 PM by blueharp

I just need one big enough for ten. Also...I want to write a Gunship Rescue scene where the helicopter blasts the hell out of the terrorists so yeah, it has to be an attack helicopter.

True, it is an alternative future (2030) which is much more advanced than our society, think of (2080). Still, the models don't change too much and it helps to have a visual model of them.

On a drug bust, it's variable whether they're given license to kill, but when in doubt "target is armed and dangerous" is always a good excuse.

I suggest doing a bit of research on this.

Oh, there's no real objection to a transport helicopter carrying some armament, it's just not what would be called an "attack helicopter" if you get my drift.

Highly armed, what with some of them being capable of firing Razor Wind that can easily cut people's heads off. About research, yeah.

I know, but hey, it's not as cool as (if you ask me) the helicopter itself blasting. :D

Well some transports may have a machine gun on its side.

The Other Wiki has this image◊.

Well first things first, the operation itself. Making an insertion or landing under cover of torrential rain is not only plausible given today's technology, but has been doable since the days of Vietnam. (If done by boat this has been doable since the Second World War, possibly earlier) Technology is the least of your worries.

Advanced radar today can spot things through rain (albeit with a diminished signature for most things), thus the reason why anyone does aerial/maritime insertions in such a storm is to reduce visibility of the defenders. They might be able to know you're coming, but they won't be able to see where you're coming from very well. Thus unless you have computer controlled defenses linked to the radar system, the defenders will have very little reaction time even with radar to shoot down an airborne transport like a helicopter.

In your case, the advanced radar is covered by the Augmenter.

Oh, I never thought about the radar. What is the average range of radar currently, and is it affected by weather?

Range depends on the installation, but while certain radio frequencies would be affected by weather, those are avoided by most radar designs.

^^ The largest installations (for example NORAD at Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado) have continental ranges. Stuff you can mount on a light vehicle or SPAAG can reach 20 km easy. It runs the gamut from there.

They can be affected by weather. The older a radar system in military use, the more likely it will be affected significantly. However all radar is affected by weather, it's simple physics. The radio waves are deflected and distorted by things like clouds and rain, hell that effect is what prompted the invention of weather radar! However in really good quality radar systems the distortion is filtered out by the computer system its attached to. Hence why I said most things would have a diminished radar signature. (Most being the operative word. Certain stealth aircraft like the old F-117 and the F-22 actually gain radar signature while in rain because the rain either disrupts their stealth geometry as in the case of the F-117 or increases the detectable surface area and prevents radar absorbent materials from absorbing the signal on the F-22.)

edited 29th May '11 8:33:29 AM by MajorTom

Hmm, I see. How much do an average radar system cost? Because if it's pretty cheap, I can see the terrorists hiding in the island using it so no one would get there. If it's expensive, they would just stick with an Augmenter. Come to think of it, seeing how the island (it really exists) is more or less completely abandoned, I can see them never expecting anyone to actually approach it.

Vehicle radar like that on some towed AA gun systems or SPAAGs is pretty damn easy to come by. After all, all you'd need to do is get old military surplus and that's easy to find on the world scene. Hell some terrorist organizations had radar such as Al Qaeda in 2001 (usually from Taliban installations) or the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka until they lost the civil war.

edited 29th May '11 8:40:32 AM by MajorTom

I guess then one kilometer in a very stormy weather isn't much of "outside the range", huh?

Old (as in circa 1950s) small scale radar systems can be reduced in range to less than a kilometer in bad weather owing to poor signal strength and poor computer systems

Modern stuff can be if you're talking about stealth technology in clear skies. With stealth technology the farther you are from the radar installation itself the less risk of detection. At basically dive-bombing ranges (<1 km), nothing will escape radar detection because so much of the radar energy emitted is striking the aircraft.

Stealth technology is constantly improving. It's only a matter of time until a stealth scheme is invented that reduces radar signature in all environs rather than just clear(er) skies. Try that approach, also a stealth helicopter is plausible today (given some reports about the Bin Laden raid not too long ago, it might already exist) if you want to use that as your aerial platform.

Or just go with this explanation:

Take off from a nearby freighter, with too soon an arrival to respond effectively.

Or some way to sabotage the radar installation in place, if that's what you want to go with. It wouldn't even have to be obvious, it could be a trojan of some kind, perhaps the radar would be sold with the intention to compromise it through a particular signal.

Opening the door for the sniper to shoot on stormy weather looks like a bad idea: With strong, unpredictable winds around, messing with the 'copter's aerodynamics looks like a losing proposition.

^ Well I have an idea that can work which is kinda rooted in a real world military want. Basically homing bullets. Fire a .50 cal round from a rifle 1000 meters away and the bullet guides itself (laser-guidance might be preferable for this) through the rain and unpredictable winds onto the target.

Last I checked, there is ongoing research into making such bullets a reality.

Hmm, does 3 km count as a long distance in modern standard?

For vehicle-based radar in bad weather against a low-flying (basically ground hugging), low radar cross section, small size aircraft (think helicopter or some civilian planes), 3 km might be further than you'd expect to find something with those properties.