Do White people have a code of silence?:

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[up][up]Educating the priveleged is a part of social justice, but they have to understand that they are priveleged and how terrible that is first. They are part of the problem, if an unwilling part. They're like the humans still stuck in the Matrix, as it were.
102 KCK27th May 2011 07:19:14 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Erock [lol] Ah, it's funny because the ones who benefit the most from affirmative action are white women!

@Tuefel I agree the education system in America needs a re-haul in regards to racial issues and many other things, but it seems like no one wants to take the time or money to do so.

Also, having racial privilege does not make every individual white person a evil, bigoted, racist.

edited 27th May '11 7:20:56 PM by KCK

There's no justice in the world and there never was~
[up][up][up][up][up]See, that's shifting the burden of education from the over-class to the under-class. It's now a black person's responsibility to educate the white person about black folk problems, instead of what should have been a responsible search for wisdom on the white person's part.

edited 27th May '11 7:21:11 PM by MatthewTheRaven

104 TuefelHundenIV27th May 2011 07:31:26 PM from Wandering , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
@ Op Who is yellow? I saw no username with the word yellow on page 3?
Your assuming that without someone bringing your attention to it they are going to know there is a problem in the first place. There is no realistic obligation for anyone human on the planet to care about another's plight. Short of being exposed to a problem there is no reason for any human being in any situation to be aware of another group of human's issues and problems. You want your issues addressed by a group outside your own. Let the outside group know the problem exists and build support. It works and makes outsiders care in the first place. The rest will fall into place as society churns on and more people are exposed to it.

How many of you know or care about the many social and economic problems facing veterans?
This whole derail is an excellent example of why any one white person would be very reluctant to discuss their view of being white.

edited 27th May '11 7:35:47 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
Hmm, I wonder if I can find the talk show episodes where people disguised themselves as another race.

106 KCK27th May 2011 07:36:57 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Tuefel You make a good point, but the problem is that racism is no secret and minorities make complaints all the time.

I can vouch for knowing the basics of the history of veteran issues.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~
Thread hop:

The reason white people don't talk about being white is that they legitimately can't think of any ways being white affects their life. The reason they can't think of any ways is that one of the privileges of white people is the ability to ignore the privileges of white people.

It's similar with all powerful class/weak class situations; the powerful class usually can ignore the way they are powerful, but the weak class can't possibly ignore the ways they are weak.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Comparing situations to other races, or racism towards white people, isn't shifting things to make white people seem more important. When the premise itself which leads whites to doing this is talk which demonizes whites and makes them seem like they should be less important than other races. It's not "Mighty Whitey" to say "so what" in the face of accusations about past deeds, to compare situations and say white people are equal. And certainly that is how things often sound, even if that isn't the case. Whites understandably get defensive.

The same happens with gender issues. A lot of people take the side of people when they talk about "male privelege", of either gender, but when it passes a certain point it seems like demonizing blame of men, many men feel like they are not on the same side as the people they are talking to. People are definitely throwing poison in the well of terms like "white privelege" and "male privelege", by talking in ways that sound as if the right is taking back from whites and men.

How much have you studied race relations in America?
More than I'd like to admit to, I've considered it a waste of my life that I'd go back and remove and purify my mind and time from if I could. Obviously for that reason there's a limit to what I've read, since I want to do things I enjoy rather than things that disturb me. In which this is something actually disturbing, not like horror movies that people throw terms like "disturbing" around with. Often only read because people such as yourself have told me "you only feel how you feel because you are ignorant", and saying I must read certain things. And being the weak-minded person I am, I listened and forced myself to do things I hated on a truly banal and sickening level, because I was told this was what I was "supposed" to do. All I got was a bitterment out of it for wasting my time reading materials I thought were racist toward white people, feeling like I wanted to make up for lost time and exposure to something I should have never been exposed to. I find it a kind of dirtying experience on all humans to read a lot of the materials out there that people should be innocent of. Which I should strive myself to be innocent of and not expose myself to more materials of. I only wish I wouldn't have to ramble on for eternity and not still be bitter.

Yes, for that reason, there is a limit to how much I have read about the subject. I consider the subject of race to be one of the worst things and most personally demoralizing things I've been exposed to in my life. But I can't avoid admitting, despite this, I think I've been exposed to a fair amount. You should go into specifics. There are different kinds of "knowledge", what some might call "knowledge" might be called "ideology" by others. It is hard to know if I have this "knowledge" or opinion people often use their adversaries on the subject of race, as it's rarely used in a specific sense.

I know you're going to tell me something like "I don't have to explain to you, what these things are and what it means", but that leaves things far too open to interpretation. I'd appreciate some clarification. And by the way, a lot of these works about the subject of the plight of racial minorities, are blatantly racist towards whites.
Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
109 KCK27th May 2011 08:03:31 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Ukonkivi What types of material were you reading? History books? Books written by actual minorities who have experience racism? The works of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Frederick Douglas?

Just because some books about racial relations shows the history of the harm whites have caused isn't racist.

For instance, if I say that Japan has a history of xenophobia, is that racist? No, it's the truth! That doesn't mean all Japanese people are xenophobic, but it does tell you something about the culture. It's the truth of the matter and sometimes the truth hurts.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Just to give a particularly example of a very racist book, about the plight of the black poor and what it means racially.

Black Bourgeois is one I can name offhand. [1] This is one of those things that people should avoid wasting their life on, even if they have morbid curiosity. As it is better to enrich one's life with pretty things. Not things particularly putrid and banal as that. Books using terms like "bourgeois" like that, make Leftism look bad.

It's basically a book attacking rich blacks who go along with rich whites, and people deluded into thinking that rich whites will ever accept them as friends or comrades in any sense. Stereotyping rich whites and people who will never accept any blacks, including rich blacks. That's racist in my book.

Also, institutional racism is a hard to show statistic. And while it's hard to tell absolutely, some books and what they say on race relations as a whole, should be taken with a grain of salt. Their personal experience are unlikely to be lies. That being said, they cannot necessarily describe race relations as a whole particularly better than a member of the majority. Because while the viewpoint of a person who has never experienced racism might be painted by it, so may also the person who has experienced racism.

There may be a tendency for cops to arrest blacks more often than other races. But how often, is a fine detail to understand. White privilege is also a blanket term that is thrown around but means a great deal of many concepts. With varying degrees of likely validity. Just like male privilege. Personally I think it's best off in both cases to focus on the issues specifically that affect gender and race, while not sounding demonizing or overly blaming of men or whites, and perhaps it's not such a great idea to use the term all that often. That is, not more often than other descriptions when detail can be afforded.

edited 27th May '11 8:18:31 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
111 KCK27th May 2011 08:15:09 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Ukonkivi Do you know when that book was made? 1957, the same year my father was born.

You're what, in your twenties? Believe it or not, race relations weren't always so peachy and racial elitism that provided a way for blacks to forcibly integrate was even more noticeable due to its rarity.

That was reality back then, not some delusional poorly thought out fantasy. Wake up and confront your history, my friend.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Hmm, I'd only read bits and pieces of it, and reviews and talk about it. So actually, I didn't read enough about it to know that. Thank you for pointing that out. That's not to say that rich whites and blacks couldn't be friends at all then, and that the assessment is spot on. Though it certainly would have been harder.

Wake up and confront your history, my friend.
That was an entirely uncalled for wording.
Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
Lover of masks.
I assume you should also look at the black histoy too. None of history is clean. Don't feel bad about being white because of history as none of it matters. Not that You feel bad, just any white really.
114 TuefelHundenIV27th May 2011 08:24:31 PM from Wandering , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
kck: I would agree on the awareness of racism and am grateful you are aware of the problems of the vets.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
115 KCK27th May 2011 08:25:00 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Dead Man I take it history was not your favorite subject in school?

@Tuefel You're welcome.

@Ukonkivi And I meant every word.

edited 27th May '11 8:26:48 PM by KCK

There's no justice in the world and there never was~
Lover of masks.
No it was. Fascinating even. Why ask?
117 KCK27th May 2011 08:33:18 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Dead Man I have my reasons, but we're getting off-topic.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~
Lover of masks.
Well the op said he was done and this topic is heading nowhere so I think it should be locked.
In Riastrad
DML: There's no reason to lock. The OP doesn't own the thread. This is democracy, bitches.

On the original topic: I don't really understand any of it, as I don't identify as "white" and I think people who do are very, very confused.

My ancestors were Irish. Therefore, I'm Irish. Why would I identify as "white" when as far as I know I have no ancestors from Whiteland or Whitannia or Whiteopolis or what have ye?

Furthermore, why would anyone consider me White when I'm clearly of Irish descent and Irish Diaspora-born culture?

"White" people shouldn't think of themselves as "white." Even if you're mixed-race (as most "white" people are), "White" isn't an accurate description of anything, and you shouldn't let anyone fool you into thinking it is.

On the current topic at hand: Everyone's ancestors were barbaric asswipes, no matter where they were from. Far as I know, it isn't okay to hold a grudge against everyone with the blood of, say, Spain, in them, despite the horrible things done by Spanish regimes. So it should be with "white" Americans or Canadians.*

There's an old, very wise, saying; "The English need to remember and the Irish need to forget." It's about the Troubles, but it applies very well here.

edited 27th May '11 9:05:11 PM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn.
Beside the raging sea I am left to moan.
Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

120 KCK27th May 2011 09:04:42 PM from In your closet
Can I KCK it?
@Diamones Because Irish people are considered to be white? Why Irish people are thought of as white, I don't know.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~
121 Madrugada27th May 2011 09:04:48 PM , Relationship Status: In season
<Mod Hat ON>

If you want to talk about something other than the thread topic, make a new thread. This is ON-TOPIC Conversations.

And this discussion has gotten pretty far off the original topic.

<Mod Hat OFF>

edited 27th May '11 9:04:58 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
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Total posts: 121
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