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SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#1: May 24th 2011 at 5:20:19 PM

This is a mess, and probably not even a real trope.

It lists 15 attributes, and then say to qualify a character has to meet two of them, and most of the characters listed have nothing in particular in common.

Thoughts?

JoieDeCombat Since: May, 2009
#2: May 24th 2011 at 7:23:04 PM

Considering we already have the trope Fountain of Expies, this seems to be The Same But More Specific, and only the actual Gundam examples are really recognizably expies of the original Char anyhow, that I can tell.

Fountain of Expies does have some other character-specific subtropes, but they're much more widespread in comparison. Char clones are, at best, limited to a specific genre if not a specific franchise within that genre... attempts at shoehorning in any blond character who may or may not count as someone's rival notwithstanding.

I say cut it.

edited 24th May '11 7:28:40 PM by JoieDeCombat

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#3: May 24th 2011 at 7:30:38 PM

I say turn it into a fan speak term.

Fight smart, not fair.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#4: May 24th 2011 at 7:39:56 PM

I say cut it, but create a specific folder for examples on the Fountain of Expies page, if it's really that common. We've done this in some other tropes as well.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#5: May 24th 2011 at 7:44:56 PM

I think it is quite worthy of a page by itself as there are so many Chars and Quattros out there.

A little cleanup maybe but don't cut it it is a perfectly fine trope.... What is up with the crusade against Gundam named tropes?

edited 24th May '11 7:54:45 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#7: May 24th 2011 at 7:57:29 PM

[up][up]See: this page. In this case, it has no reason to be separated from Fountain of Expies.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#8: May 24th 2011 at 8:02:41 PM

Doesn't need its own page. At best, it's a particularly good example of Fountain of Expies.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#9: May 24th 2011 at 8:06:34 PM

Well then we need to merge all 7 of the Subtropes to it like Bruce Lee Clone ect because of that reasoning....

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#10: May 24th 2011 at 8:10:37 PM

[up]Because the only non-shoehorned examples - at least, judging from the page - are all within the Gundam meta-series. In contrast, the others are all found across multiple media. Although some of them are flawed anyway: The Ahnold is probably more of a Stock Parody then anything to do with Fountain of Expies.

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#11: May 24th 2011 at 10:54:58 PM

[up]

Right, this is only actually a trope within the Gundam series, and while I'm a splitter by nature, thats not enough to justify it as its own trope.

A special mention on Fountain of Expies should be plenty.

Anyone have any other objections? Should we run a crowner first?

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#12: May 24th 2011 at 10:57:06 PM

[up][up] Not really there are a hell of alot of those that are real expies and as I said cleanup is all thats needed IMO.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#13: May 24th 2011 at 11:02:53 PM

No way. I remember coming across this trope doing a Wiki Walk a few months ago and thinking it was kinda messed up, but not actually doing anything about it, and then I saw it being torn to pieces on another site, which made me take another look.

Its a really bad trope as it stands, if its distinct, it needs a complete rewrite and a rename at least.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#14: May 24th 2011 at 11:08:05 PM

A few of the options could go but the Char archetype has been copied a ton.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#15: May 24th 2011 at 11:12:22 PM

[up]Look. I don't mean to be rude, and I certainly grant you know more about the characters in question then I do (not that that's saying much), but are you sure you're defending the page for the right reasons, and not Fan Myopia?

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#16: May 24th 2011 at 11:20:25 PM

[up]

I gotta agree, I'm a huge Gundam fan, but this is not an independent trope, its a franchise specific Fountain of Expies

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#17: May 24th 2011 at 11:39:11 PM

Maybe a little but this page is still no different than Bruce Lee Clone.

There are a hell of alot of the examples on the page that are a clone of Char / Quattro. From Lelouch in Code Geass to Fate in Nanoha Zero in Mega Man X ect. There are specific combination of qualities that are required to make a Char Clone too, seems like a perfectly valid trope to me.

And considering how much Char himself has been ingrained in Anime culture (Real Robot and Super Robot especially) its 100% intentional.

There was a trope at one time that was Amuro And Char which was about the specific dynamic of the two but that was cut in favor of this.

(If we do merge though the Image should replace the one on the expies page.)

edited 25th May '11 12:30:19 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
EternalSeptember Since: Sep, 2010
#18: May 25th 2011 at 5:03:07 AM

I agree that it is a legit trope, though I don't really know the franchise, but I recognize some of the examples, and they are similar to each other. Maybe the number of expected traits could be raised from 2 to 4 or 5, but otherwise it's fine.

If it could get an entire folder of examples on Fountain of Expies, it would already be enough reason to split it off from there. In fact, I wa just thinking about splitting of Rei Clone and Shana Clone as well. (they aren't completely covered by Emotionless Girl and Tsundere, respectively).

[up] I think the current one works better, it more clearly shows different art stlyles and franchises.

edited 25th May '11 5:03:30 AM by EternalSeptember

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#19: May 25th 2011 at 5:07:56 AM

I agree there on Rei Clone and Shana Clone. Especially Shana Clones as there are a ton of specific umm well everything about them even voice actor (most of the time) and Catchphrase "Urusai, urusai, urusai!".

edited 25th May '11 5:42:36 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
EternalSeptember Since: Sep, 2010
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#21: May 25th 2011 at 8:04:59 AM

It could use some cleanup, but it's definitely worth its own trope. Gundam is so huge in Japan that Char is a recognized archetype — it deserves its own trope in the same way that The Kirk does. That said, Char Clone should be limited to characters that are deliberate (or at least really blatant) references to Char. If they just happen to have two or three Char-y attributes, then that doesn't really count.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
EternalSeptember Since: Sep, 2010
#22: May 25th 2011 at 9:02:25 AM

As my YKTTW about Shana Clone is starting to deform into a more generic trope about the character type, I thought maybe this is the solution here as well. Rename and expand this to recognize most of these characters as followers of a generic trope, rather than a character, and only note that some of the mecha anime examples are direct expies of Char.

edited 25th May '11 9:02:35 AM by EternalSeptember

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#23: May 25th 2011 at 10:03:41 AM

That's basically already what it is? Like Bruce Lee Clone is "kung-fu guy who looks like Bruce Lee and uses tropes that Bruce Lee did", Char Clone is "mecha guy who looks like Char and uses tropes that Char did".

I'll made up a sandbox version of a less-fucked Char Clone description when I get a chance. What're the rules for making sandbox versions of pages again? Would it just go in Char Clone?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#24: May 25th 2011 at 12:16:17 PM

[up][up][up]While I have nothing to say on the main topic - I don't know enough about the characters in question to tell - I have to say that this is misuse of The Kirk - it's not a trope about Captain Kirk.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#25: May 25th 2011 at 12:23:48 PM

[up][up] Yep make it there and when we are all done cut list it.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

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