So if Cliche Storm is YMMV....: Cliche Storm

Wouldn't this be too? If I can get this straight...

Cliché Storm: Using cliches with reckless abandon. Every cliche is presented as is with no sort of nudge wink or lampshading. This is usually a negative connatation, so it's YMMV.

Troperiffic: Presenting cliches BECAUSE they're cliches and there's some lampshading and playing around with the tropes. This is not subjective.

Avatar is listed in both pages, along with other works. I guess they're going to be cross-over, but I remember this being sent to the TRS shop once and I still don't really get the distinction or how this is less subjective than Cliché Storm. Are we just projecting on say, a Cliché Storm work playing enough with tropes that they're Troperiffic or what? Honestly, I think maybe Cliché Storm is the one that needs some work/total banishment but help me out here.

What the - ?!?

I would have sworn this was YMMV. The only reason I can think of that it might not be is that Cliché Storm is much more likely to draw complaining then this, and so is going to have a lot more mileages varying then a trope widely perceived as "good".

Incidentally, I don't think this means "work that plays extensively with tropes".

I don't think that your definition is correct, the Troperiffic page mostly seems to describe the fact that many tropes are used, only the fourth paragraph mentions that " most Troperiffic works have a certain level of Lampshade Hanging, sarcasm, or underlying love for the genre the work exists in."

If anything, it looks like Troperiffic is a rather objective page about the fact that the work used several tropes, and Cliché Storm is just "Troperiffic, but you didn't like it".

edited 21st May '11 11:37:55 PM by EternalSeptember

IMHO Troperrific is not YMMV - it's the kind of work that plays with a lot of different tropes (common in [[Deconstruction]]s, [[Reconstruction]]s, throwbacks, [1]s, parodies and works relying on [2]s). I think we should clean up Cliché Storm though, the examples are often Troperrific but not Cliché Storm

edited 22nd May '11 3:27:27 AM by nzm1536

There's definatly a problem about the exact difference of the two.

I could see how Troperiffic could be objective, but looking at the following part of the trope description, it seems to me that it is meant to be subjective.

Being arguably related to a subjective trope doesn't make this one subjective.

For example, just because some people might subjectively think that all Serial Killers are Complete Monsters, and the latter is subjective, it doesn't mean that Serial Killer is subjective.

A work uses lots of tropes, that is objective. Some poeople think that those tropes are clichés, that's a subjective interpretation of the trope.

Neither should be subjective. They should just be merged to one page and put a reminder that Tropes Are Not Good-Tropes Are Not Bad. A work that heavily rips from a whole lot of familiar reference pools is a way a work can tell its story, nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah, one of these needs to die.

The difference between the two is subtle, as they frequently overlap, but important.

A Cliché Storm is more about the fact that a sufficiently advanced viewer can predict everything that's going to happen, while a Tropperiffic work plays with a whole bunch of tropes.

Got that?

Thanks Luc "Trope Storm" French

Isn't that more Strictly Formula? Anyway it's still YMMV or Flame Bait.

edited 24th May '11 8:08:48 AM by Raso

In my post , I'm only pointing out how Cliché Storm and Tropperiffic differ.

The difference between Cliché Storm and Strictly Formula? I got nothing besides the guess that a Cliché Storm passes an event horizon of being so cliched that it causes actual mental dissonance.

Thanks
Luc "Fridge Logic Storm" French

Bump. So Troperiffic is Cliché Storm except good?

Not necessarily. Troperiffic is aware of the tropes and is Playing With them but doesn't have to be cliched or formulaic

Troperiffic and Cliché Storm are defined in the exact same way: Lots and lots of tropes, played completely straight, without as much as a glimmer of an Aversion or a glimpse of Lampshade Hanging. Absurdly, the above is not even YMMV material.

We should merge the two pages.

edited 12th Jun '11 6:57:59 AM by TripleElation

Actually, definition of Troperrific implies Playing With

It just says that it "may be" the case.

We can redefine it so it explicitly requires that, mind you. Except then we'd run into overlap with Deconstructor Fleet.

Wow. I never realized how many "MY SHOW! LOOK ON ITS TROPES, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR!" pages we have.

I always assumed that Troperiffic is a work that will play with its many tropes, whereas Cliché Storm will use them straight, but when I finally bothered to look at Troperiffic, it's kind of vague. At the start, it seems to imply that it's all about unabashedly taking loads of tropes and playing them straight, but later it seems more inclined towards the "playing with" definition.

My suggestion: rewrite the definition of Troperiffic to make it more clearly "takes a bunch of tropes and subverts/inverts/deconstructs them to hell and back", since that seems to be how most people (in this thread, at least) see it, and keep Cliché Storm for works that use a lot of tropes but played straight.

Yep. Cliché Storm should be when a lot of tropes are played straight, while Troperiffic is when a lot of tropes are Played With.

Isn't Troperiffic something that has a lot of tropes? How could that be subjective?

My initial thought here is that a work is Troperiffic if you like it and a Cliché Storm if you don't.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference is intention. It's a Cliché Storm if the writer rehashed a bunch of familiar tropes because they didn't care to write an original story or didn't know any better. It's Troperiffic if the author deliberately crammed the tropes into the story because they love them so much.

Which means we should probably merge rather than trying to keep the pages separate based on author intent.

This has always been my understanding. I'd rather keep them separate and just make Troperiffic YMMV, though.

You're thinking of Trope Overdosed.

edited 12th Jun '11 12:05:27 PM by SpellBlade

Nope, Trope Overdosed is a series that's popular with a large number of tropers. Overlap, but not the same.