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Atheist student harassed for asking school obey state laws.:

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Exactly What It Says on the Tin

[1]

Basically the kid lives in the bible belt and found out his school was going to have a religious graduation which is against state laws, so he asked the school obey the laws and stop and they did after releasing his information and now he's basically being near run out of town by religious groups...for supporting the law.

I was wondering how you tropers felt about this?

edited 20th May '11 2:00:31 AM by Vyctorian

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Pretty damn well disgusted.

Seconding King Zeal. That's rather abominable.
 
They see me troll'n
Oh Bible Belt. You never do cease to disappoint me.
 5 Barkey, Fri, 20th May '11 2:08:47 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
On the one hand, the kid was completely justified to tell the school that he didn't feel that a prayer was appropriate, and that it was against the law.

But on the other hand, I think he's a whiny little piece of shit for referring to being present during a prayer as "emotionally stressing". Note: I'm not a Christian.

I hate this whole squeeky wheel gets the grease bullshit. The overwhelming majority of the school is Christian, and thus most of them would feel positively about a prayer at their graduation, which is a momentous event. Why does that bug kids like this so much? I don't freak the fuck out when there's some form of military function and the Christian Chaplain says a prayer of some form to an audience of mixed religious preference. Whiny fuckers like him just piss me off.

Who cares if Under God is in the pledge? Who cares if In God We Trust is on our money?

I don't see why atheists have this aversion to even the mere mention to Christianity in the same room as them. It seems like religion to an atheist is like garlic to a vampire or something. Long as nobody tries to pressure me into going to church, making any statements regarding religion myself, or signing any documents with religious connotations, they can have a formality prayer during an event.

This isn't a frigging war where one side has to wipe the other off the map completely, we can learn to co-exist and throw eachother a god damn bone every now and again.

edited 20th May '11 2:12:32 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 6 Deboss, Fri, 20th May '11 2:14:30 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I'd oppose the prayer as well. Why the fuck would I want to stay at the ceremony longer than the time it takes to get my diploma?
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[up][up]I'm a whiny fucker like him and quite frankly I do not think there is enough of us. To many people just go with what the world is because they don't want to be a bother to the Status Que. Ya, he's bitching thats good. This country was founded by people escaping religious oppression because bitching about religion wasn't allowed in England.

Up where I live we have "a moment of silence" and if a person wants to say a personal prayer it's there business, but their business or lack of business doesn't get shoved down people throats, they could easily have a there church do there own ceremony before hand or afterward, and like it or not it is against the law.

And as far as calling him just a whiner and hating people like him I doubt you'd be saying those things if it was you who was run out of town for sticking to one of the things you believe in! (Thats a lot of people do not. Even though I'm with you on most issues.)

edited 20th May '11 2:22:26 AM by Vyctorian

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Prince of Dorne
This isn't a frigging war where one side has to wipe the other off the map completely, we can learn to co-exist and throw eachother a god damn bone every now and again.
Coexist, yes - in equality. And that touches issues of mere symbolical inequality as well. It's funny how you rant and rave about atheists being so opposed to religion when what you actually demand is superiority for religion! You're acting like a hypocrite!
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken.

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 9 Usht, Fri, 20th May '11 2:18:32 AM from an arbitrary view point.
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
Eh, while laws are one thing, this just sort of strikes me as a "victimless crime". Seriously, I could listen to how I will one of the many young adults to lead the world into a better place in a religious manner or I can listen to how I will be one of the many young adults to lead the world into a better place in a secular manner. Either way, the ceremony takes forever.

Regardless, going to say:

  • The student should have been given the option to just take his diploma and go home.
  • No reason for the Lawful Stupidity on both sides.

edited 20th May '11 2:19:14 AM by Usht

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 10 Jeysie, Fri, 20th May '11 2:19:44 AM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
This isn't a frigging war where one side has to wipe the other off the map completely, we can learn to co-exist and throw eachother a god damn bone every now and again.
I agree. That's why public institutions can learn not to wipe the minority group off the map by forcing them to feel on the spot of either doing something they don't believe in or not participating and thus risking harassment and social ostracization for not participating.
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
 11 Deboss, Fri, 20th May '11 2:21:18 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I think all students should be given the options to get their diplomas without ceremony. But then the schools couldn't make all that sweet sweet picture money.
Actually, yeah. Why can't you just get the diploma without ceremony?

Besides the 'sweet sweet picture money'.
 
 13 Usht, Fri, 20th May '11 2:25:45 AM from an arbitrary view point.
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
You probably can, but...

  1. They'll make it a pain for you to do so.
  2. No one ever thinks to do just that.
  3. All of the cherished moments you'll miss out on!

edited 20th May '11 2:25:53 AM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
 14 Barkey, Fri, 20th May '11 2:26:06 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Coexist, yes - in equality. And that touches issues of mere symbolical inequality as well. It's funny how you rant and rave about atheists being so opposed to religion when what you actually demand is superiority for religion! You're acting like a hypocrite!

Look, I hate the Christian Right in America more than any other group, but there's no reason to stoop to their level of dickery and complaining. If there was a way to throw a bone to both groups, then we'd have ourselves a gesture.

I just don't see why this bothers people so much, I'm not a Christian, and it doesn't bother me at all to have a quick moment of silence while some preacher says a few words to people who care, a group that I am not part of. I'll just sit here and think about some random bullshit for a minute or two.

Or perhaps I'm desensitized to it, it's just kind of customary in the military. Someone retires? Chaplain says a few words. Promotion to a very hard to reach rank? Chaplain gets about 60 seconds. Death in the unit? Chaplain. Usually those words are simply that, kind words and well wishing. My old boss retired recently after over 27 years of service, she's an atheist. The chaplain still came up and said a prayer and a few words, and she still thanked him. No, she doesn't believe in God, but she took it as a nice gesture that someone who does believe in God felt it proper to wish her well on her journey through retired life.

Sentiment people. Who gives a shit what it's dressed up as. Happy holidays? Thanks for wishing me a happy holiday! Merry Christmas? Thanks for the sentiment of wishing that I have a good day on Christmas!

Yes, the ceremony takes too long. I couldn't wait to get that gown off and go get some chow with my friends and family. But complain about having the prayer because it adds unnecessary time to an already drawn out ceremony, not because some preacher is chattering for two minutes and that offends you.

edited 20th May '11 2:28:52 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
^^I'm reasonably certain you can. After all, if you're ill or can't not attend for whatever reason, it's not like they can deny you your diploma.

Anyways, I'm inclined to agree with Barkey on this one. Was this really necessary?

edited 20th May '11 2:31:04 AM by petrie911

Belief or disbelief rests with you.
 16 Barkey, Fri, 20th May '11 2:32:43 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
The reason I rag on this sort of behavior is because as someone who is relatively irreligious as one of those fence sitting agnostic fellows, I kind of feel thrown into the miasma of "Non-Christians" in America. We kind of get treated the same, and I hate being parts of groups that I consider to be behaving like whiny bitches.

Just like how if I was a Christian, I'd tell people to stop witnessing others because it's obnoxious and if they wanted to learn more about the religion, they would ask.

edited 20th May '11 2:33:08 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
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Or perhaps I'm desensitized to it, it's just kind of customary in the military.

The site I posted this from is for atheists in the militarily and veteran atheists. So I don't think it's the military that desensitized you.

As for the issue as a whole; I'm more appealed at him being harassed, being sent death threats and basically run out of town, for what amounts to have a different believe. I'd be just as livid if this was happening to a christian or a Buddhist or a pagan , or if it was based on a (legal) political stance or (legal) sexuality.

This nation isn't a christian nation it's a secular nation, it always has been, hell the pledge didn't even have the words under God in it 80 years ago.

edited 20th May '11 2:41:23 AM by Vyctorian

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 18 Octo, Fri, 20th May '11 2:36:45 AM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
Anyways, I'm inclined to agree with Barkey on this one. Was this really necessary?
Yes of course it was! I don't even know why we have to discuss this! The problem is that gives Christianity, or theism in general, a special value and legitimation to which it simply has no right. Not if we assume equality for everybody which is kinda a requirement for a democratic society. Sure, people could just sit quiet and take, but why should they? There is no reason at all for why they should! It's not being whiny, it's taking a stand!
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 19 Usht, Fri, 20th May '11 2:39:42 AM from an arbitrary view point.
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
And you suppose removing religion all together from societal events is any better? Think about the hypocrisy. I'm with Barkey on this one, learn to tolerate and even, you know, accept others around you and then maybe we can have a graduation that appeals to both crowds.
The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
 20 Octo, Fri, 20th May '11 2:42:40 AM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
And you suppose removing religion all together from societal events is any better? Think about the hypocrisy.
I don't see any. It's not like I call for explicitly atheist events where the existence of any god is denounced. That would be the equivalent. I'm calling for religion simply not being touched at all. Surely that cannot be too much to ask for? Let them be religious in the privacy of their own homes!

edited 20th May '11 2:43:04 AM by Octo

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what would you have done in this situation? Just accepted the fact that they were celebrating one religion while dismissing all the other ones?

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Are we forgetting the whole separation of church and state here. If we have one religion represented we must have all of them represented even if none on in the crowd admits to being one because they maybe be a closet whatever-ist, and we don't want them to feel left out.

So bring on the father, Jewish guy (idk what there called), the Buddhist monk form 30 miles out of town, the druid, the shaman, the Scientology, the jedi, the sith. We can make it a week long event! :D

Actually we should have one sermon from every different christian church as well so the evangelist, the baptist, the Mormon, the catholic.

edited 20th May '11 2:48:00 AM by Vyctorian

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 23 Jeysie, Fri, 20th May '11 2:46:10 AM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
And you suppose removing religion all together from societal events is any better? Think about the hypocrisy.
What's so hypocritical about expecting a non-religious ceremony to not contain overt religion? Especially when it's something that all students are mandated to attend. People participating can always pray quietly and privately if they wish.

Actual hypocrisy would be if this was an actual religious ceremony and the atheist decreed that since he was choosing to participate the religious aspects had to be removed as a result.

Edit: Although Vyctorian's suggestion makes me giggle. I love Bothering by the Book when appropriate.

edited 20th May '11 2:47:34 AM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
 24 Usht, Fri, 20th May '11 2:46:28 AM from an arbitrary view point.
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
Eh... that's stepping on freedom of speech. See, if the speaker wants to talk religion at the graduation, then he or she should be allowed to. If he or she wants to talk a lack of religion at the graduation, then he or she should be allowed to. However, the student simply shouldn't be forced into going into any explicitly religious ceremonies (like getting that holy water sprinkled on him before being allowed to grab the diploma or whatever).
The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
 25 Barkey, Fri, 20th May '11 2:47:35 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
I mean seriously, we let Sikh doctors serve in the military wearing turbans and ignoring the grooming regs. Should that offend the shit out of me? There were plenty of atheists out there in the crowd saying the Army were a bunch of fascists for even considering not letting them in because it's discriminatory. And these are guys who quite literally wear their religion everywhere they go.

Look, I hate extremism of any religion, and I have a particular dislike for Christianity. But I don't try to hide it behind some "Everybody needs to be equal!" garbage. At least admit that you feel particularly stifled by the largest religion in our country and that it makes you uncomfortable. If it was possible to give Atheists a shoutout in the first place, it would have been done long ago.

tldr: I dislike how much this reeks of being one giant Take That to Christians, despite the fact that I don't like them much myself. It's not a Fuck You to every non-Christian out there until they deny letting someone else stand up and give a benediction. If they told a Rabbi no, but a Father yes, then I'd be pretty pissed off about this whole thing. Maybe if some other religions would step up and say a few words, there wouldn't be all this controversy.

edited 20th May '11 2:52:10 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
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