Total posts: [83]
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[up][up][up]Obviously, democracies have many nonsensical laws. I'm talking about the more normative definition of democracy though, with acceptance of human rights. I'm not a big fan of some democratic ideas (or maybe what they are evolving into) but one of advantages of democracies in normative sense is that they won't allow things like that
"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey
77 Carciofus21st May 2011 10:44:42 AM from Alpha Tucanae I
Is that cake frosting?
One Child Policy is a excelent example of something that needs to be done
Actually, One Child Policy is an excellent example of a hamfisted, brutal and utterly ineffectual attempt at solving a problem which not only was not much of a problem to begin with, but could be "solved" through basic sexual education and some improvements in the living conditions of the population.

edited 21st May '11 10:46:03 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

78 del_diablo21st May 2011 11:03:05 AM from Somewher in mid Norway
Den harde nordmann
Carciofus: That is partially correct.
You see, the problem is that there is a overpopulation.
And secondly: Sexual edication and "fixing the wage in rural areas" takes decades to get started on. If you started at something this exact moment, you would start minorly seeing the effect in 10-20 years.
If you start by 1 child policy this date, you start seeing an effect after that exact moment.
Nevermind that a populations moral takes 20-30 years to actually sway, and another 20 for good measure for the original problem moral to have roughly died out of old age.
And do NOT underestimate Chinas culture: They are extremely conservative, even in culture. Their internal borders have barely changed since the 1700s too.

Another note: Fixing the wage, getting in proper sex education, and fixing the general corruptnes will only stabalize the birthrate, somewhere between 1.9 or 2.8, and it will not lead to a population decrease.
The goal of the 1 child per family police is to reduce the population.
A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
79 Carciofus21st May 2011 11:11:07 AM from Alpha Tucanae I
Is that cake frosting?
Overpopulation is not a problem for now, not here and not in China.

And it would not be a problem for other 50 years or so, even disregarding the fact that countries' birth rates tend to spontaneously decrease once the quality of life improves.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

80 del_diablo21st May 2011 11:49:59 AM from Somewher in mid Norway
Den harde nordmann
Carciofus: Well, look at it from a economic angle.
IF you can manage to increase the profit, and increase automisation equal to the decrease in population, then you have massively boosted the economy.
And I guess that is the goal.
And I have already covered the "decrease" you mention, what happens is that you go to somewhere around 2.1 and most likely a bit lower. Which means that there is no "population reduction", but a slight decrease over perhaps 6-7 generations.
A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Guys, there's no dowry money in Chinese culture, I have no idea what you are talking about. They use Bride Price in China, ie. the Groom's family pays the Bride's family a bunch of money. The dowry is non-monetary gifts from the bride to the groom. It specifically has to be non-monetary, and this has been dropped in most contexts anyway (whereas bride price has lasted much longer and may still be in practice in some places). As China is large, I'm certain that there's also all sorts of different practices going on anyway.

As for one-child rule, it is harsh yes (therefore only possible in a dictatorship) but their birthrates have historically been much lower than India, so in that regard it is doing it's expressed purpose of lowering the population growth. Children with both parents that fell under one-child rule are allowed two children. Also, if a birth results in more than one child (such as twins), you get to keep them all, so it is more like a one successful birth rule. Some areas do other things such as allowing children if your other child died in some way (like disease, an accident, natural disaster etc).

Whether I agree with the practice or not, I probably err on "no" because I'm a democracy advocate. It's better to focus on education, especially with women, in order to lower birth rates. However, to claim that they are not suffering overpopulation is a bit over the top. It's only been half a decade since China came off of UN World Food Programme aid and became a contributor instead of a receiver. If there were a few hundred million more Chinese, that wouldn't be the case and everyone in the world would be paying the price for that.

As for the infanticide, it IS viewed poorly in China by the majority of people. But you know, like say 10% of the population is a bunch of redneck hicks in rural areas with little education, that's basically 100s of millions of redneck hicks (guh). You get freaking Firing Squad if you're convicted of infanticide.

I'd like to think you're referring to "this particular aspect of Chinese society" and not "Chinese society as a whole" as what was better off, though.

Indeed, the rest of the paragraph I wrote said just as much.

edited 21st May '11 2:20:05 PM by breadloaf

82 nightwyrm_zero21st May 2011 05:46:38 PM , Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
As breadloaf said, dowry is not really the standard practice and so isn't the main factor. The main factor is that a wife takes the husband's last name and so if you only have a daughter, your family name isn't passed down and your lineage ends with you. Idiotic, I know, but these are ignorant, idiotic peasants. For those idiots with this out-dated mindset, only those who have the same family name as you are counted as "real" family.

edited 21st May '11 5:49:02 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Chaotic Greedy
But if you are that idiotic, your family deserves to go "extinct"...
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.

Total posts: 83
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