Inexplicable StudentLaying the wreath at the Garden of Remembrance is not necessarily connected to Bloody Sunday. I suspect a mild case of having your wires crossed; she visited the Garden of Remembrance (which memorialises the men who fought in the Irish War of Independence - with especial reference to the 1916 Rising) and Croke Park (the sacred turf where British troops massacred players and spectators - one of several 'Bloody Sundays'). I was a little uncomfortable with the idea of the wreath at the Garden of Remembrance, but on the other hand, these people have to be acknowledged. It would be much worse if they were simply swept under the rug.
Gristknife"Forgive but never forget"?
Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Inexplicable StudentSomething like that, yes.
Admittedly, I've been zoned out from real world events by exams. I caught a BBC news piece which talked almost exclusively about her going there because of Bloody Sunday. (Breakfast, 18th May) Breakfast has never exactly been stellar journalism, so I take everything I hear with a pinch of salt. Hence me saying that I wasn't the best informed, and that the little news coverage I had seen was probably a little skewed. Defence of misconception aside, I'm happy to be corrected on this one. My gut reaction is still negative, but I have nowhere near all the facts, inherited my Irish mother's view that Northern Ireland should be part of the Republic, I live in England not Ireland and I violently oppose the monarchy, so its entirely possible I'm biased on this.
Inexplicable StudentMy apologies if I came off as lecturing you; I'm told I often adopt a "teaching tone" - which I interpret as meaning I can sound like a bit of a wanker. Good for you for having an open mind though. There's no progress without an open mind. Not to divert the conversation too much, but - while I am a nationalist - the six counties suddenly rejoining the Republic would be disastrous; economically, socially and politically. For now, anyway. Maybe some day, but not 'til the people vote to do so by a clear majority, and even then it's only a possibility.
Inadequate law studentI consider myself a unionist, although I must admit that the idea of Northern Ireland joining the Republic doesn't really trouble me all that much. Most of the hardline unionist firebrands seem to espouse this moral opposition to the concept, but that honestly doesn't seem like a reasonable complaint. As noted above, the economic and social circumstances at present aren't really conducive to unification. The last best opportunity for uniting Ireland was in 1985.
Maybe some day, but not 'til the people vote to do so by a clear majority, and even then it's only a possibility.If I have read it correctly, the Belfast Agreement 1998 requires a plurality of both unionists and nationalists to vote in favour of uniting Ireland for it to become possible. As you say, it's presently a bit of a cold day in hell situation.
edited 19th May '11 3:44:05 PM by TheGloomer
Inexplicable StudentBrilliant! We have a nationalist and a unionist in the same thread! Feel like a pint, and perhaps a bit of a brawl? I think your reading's about right by the way. That's how I've always understood it.
edited 19th May '11 3:45:26 PM by DanEile
I just rather assumed that everyone is trying to get along reasonably well whilst some dicks who want to deal coke and play at terrorists try and say they are leaving bombs everywhere.
Inexplicable StudentSounds about right. There's still a degree of uncertainty about the whole visit to the Garden of Remembrance, but as I said, better the loss be acknowledged than ignored.
My view is essentially that it would be worse if she didn't go and visit that spot, but its still not exactly good that she is, if that makes sense. I actually struggle to see the particular purpose of someone who is really just a figurehead making this trip. It feels designed to give an excuse for rabble rousers to rouse some rabbles.
Sneering ImperialistShe may be a figurehead, but she represents the British nation more than the prime minister does, in my view. She's still technically the head of state. I think she's the perfect choice for a gesture of peace and reconciliation.
Typhoid and swans - it all comes from the same place.
Inexplicable StudentYou know, I saw something on television rather recently, and I can't for the life of me remember where I got this, but I believe what they said was that a people that lose more than a quarter of their population are indelibly marked and are never again the same. They become, in effect, a ghost nation; bearing the memory of the dead with them in their psyche. I suspect this is the root cause of the supposed Irish "temper", the bitterness and pointed humour that characterises many of our writers. It's possible it's also the root of the peculiarities of the Jewish sense of humour. You carry that with you, because it's embedded in your culture. This is why Irish people often have a difficulty with others telling them to "let it go", I suppose. It's part of who you are. Just a thought that occurred to me.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
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