Rename: Shares a name with a work, and stuff: Sorcerers Apprentice

Okay, so this trope is when a sidekick or apprentice or other inexperienced type gets hold of the phlebotinum when the wizard type guy who normally wields it isn't around, and they try to use it and it backfires, and they learn a valuable lesson about not messing around with other people's phlebotinum. Just like in 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice', hence the Trope Namer.

So, important points:

1. Shares a name with a work. I noticed it because I was searching for The Sorcerers Apprentice and got this page instead. So, that's bad. Shares a name with two works, actually, if you count the Fantasia short as a work (this'll show up in the wick check in a minute).
2. Its stats aren't so hot. It's been around since October 2007, more than three years, and it's only managed to collect 37 Wicks and 93 inbounds. That's pretty stagnant. Not very good growth on this one.
3. Checking the first 11 non-punctuated wicks:
   • Correct:
     • Alpha Outpost Blues
     • Fantasia
   • Misused for the title of the Fantasia short:
     • Dark Castle
     • Deliberately Monochrome
     • DVD Commentary
     • ShoutOut.Epic Mickey
     • Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe (The original poem)
   • Misused for "Apprentice of a sorcerer"
     • Dragonslayer
     • Dr Brinner Ghost Psychiatrist
     • El Goonish Shive: Actually, I'm not sure about this one, but it's potholed with "idiot apprentice" so my hopes are not so high.
     • Guardians Of The Galaxy

I'd say that's some pretty damning evidence against this title. Can we all get on board with a rename?

edited 17th May '11 7:12:03 PM by troacctid

Didn't we already have this thread?

If so, nothing was done.

Agree with the rename. Something along the lines of When The Cats Away The Mouse Will Play?

Go for clear: Sorcerors Apprentice Plot.

The conflict between the trope name, the film, and the short from Fantasia sounds like a good enough reason to rename the trope to me.

Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot sounds okay to me, but I wonder if there is a more direct and obvious name that could be used for at least a redirect.

Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot sounds fine to me. The misuse I found was mistaking it for either a character role (which should be fixed by explicitly spelling out that it's a plot trope) or for the title of the work (which should be fixed by changing the name so it's not the same).

IIRC, one of the problems previously was that it was getting misused as a character trope.

OK, we have got to do something this time. This came up for exactly the same reason back in October of last year, and died for lack of action even though there was no dissention that it was broken horribly.

Looks like the last thread had good support for Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot too.

Edit: May as well run a crowner. Link

edited 13th May '11 5:02:39 PM by troacctid

Does anyone care about the Nic Cage movie, or are we assuming that it was so bad that it won't make a dent in the public consciousness associating the title with the much better and more enduring Fantasia short?

The Nic Cage movie already has a page at Film.Sorcerers Apprentice. And the Fantasia segment shouldn't have a page of its own, since it was never released as an independent short.

Basically, Main.Sorcerers Apprentice should be a disambiguation page, with pointers to the Film, to Disney.Fantasia, and the whatever we name the trope. And if anyone decides to someday make a page for the Goethe poem, or the piece of music, they can be added.

edited 13th May '11 6:19:38 PM by Madrugada

What I was asking was, does naming this "Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot" carry any risk whatsoever of someone assuming that the movie, rather than the short, is meant?

I don't think so, but want to be sure.

Oh, I doubt it.

We'll probably want a trope for the character on the Disambig as well.

The movie's plot isn't nearly original enough to be its own trope. It's standard Hero's Journey Chosen One Sealed Evil in a Can fare. Also, it's kind of an Adaptation Expansion of the Fantasia short anyway. I don't think anyone is gonna be confused about it.

I would kind of take it as similar to Bloodsport the trope and Bloodsport the movie, they both take their name from an idea that is far older than we normally give credit.

EDIT: Although looking over the trope I see it is an broader idea than I originally thought. It isn't even exclusive to magic, it's really more of The Smart Guy getting into something they don't fully understand and can't fully control.

edited 14th May '11 12:09:26 AM by KJMackley

Crowner is currently 11-1 in favor of renaming after a little over 2 days. That's pretty solid. We can give it another day, but barring some new argument, it seems pretty likely that this motion is going to pass.

Yep, looks like it's more or less stopped moving, still 11-1 in favor of renaming. Are we ready for an alt-titles crowner?

Single Prop locked after a least two days at 11-1 in favor. Alt Names hooked although there's only been one suggestion for the plot trope.

edited 17th May '11 6:10:31 PM by Madrugada

Still only one suggestion. It's at 3-0 right now.

Upon reading the description, what this sounds like is a Phlebotinum Joyride, wherein random character steels/borrows/uses the phlebotinum when the owner isn't around and it backfires on them. Which I can think of lots of examples of in Western Animation.

Now at 8-1 for Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot, 3-0 for Phlebotinum Joyride.

Now they're tied at 5.

7 to 4, with Sorcerer's Apprentice Plot winning.

Now 7 to 2.