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Copyright laws:

Nihilist Hippie
Given that I know quite a few of you regularly download copyrighted material, and no one else seems to care, I'm curious. What do you think?
"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
Fuck 'em.

 3 Native Jovian, Wed, 11th May '11 8:18:10 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
Copyright laws are necessary in order for artists to be able to make a living. Authors can't sell books if anyone is allowed to steal their text and publish it without compensating them, the film industry can't make money if anyone is allowed to pirate films and sell them for the cost of a DVD, etc.

The problem with copyright is that they last way too long. The basic standard right now is life + 70 years for a single-author work or 120 years for made-for-hire works (ie, things like movies, where the owner of the copyright isn't the person who actually made the work). 120 years. That's absolutely ridiculous.

edited 11th May '11 8:21:22 AM by NativeJovian

Moar and Moar and Moar
Nobody pays for content/culture. We pay for the package that the content comes in, the format, the convenience, to collect it, or even in some cases just as a vote with our dollars. The whole idea of strict copyright as limiting exposure to content is quite foreign to our society.

Generally if we can (legally) get our hands on physical versions of content we don't worry about consuming it regardless of if we personally paid the distributor for it or not. We get a lend of things, we rent things, we buy things used, we go to the library, we read the paper left at a bus stop, etc.

That said, I think that some sort of exclusive copyright is a necessary evil. What I'd propose is 5 years total copyright and 10 years of exclusive commercial copyright, then after that, into the public domain you go.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
 5 Silent Reverence, Wed, 11th May '11 8:21:43 AM from 3 tiles right 1 tile up
adopting kitteh
Copyright as a whole, in a conceptual sense, is fine, but it has been abused and raped to death (or eternal life) by companies like Disney. The "melding" with patent law and trademark law under the guise of "Creator Rights" by the Thought Police doesn't help, definitively; nor does the jerkass way companies have of trying to protect "their" "rights" (Sony comes to mind).

IMHO, Copyright laws (as in, the individual instances of it) most likely need to be rewritten from scratch. When or how? No idea, but as soon as possible and at a global, international level, seem the most adequate responses before this thing snowballs even more and we are looking at what essentially amounts to a six centuries protection for The Little Mermaid, in disregard of the fact that it's actually folklore.
 6 Drunk Girlfriend, Wed, 11th May '11 8:46:47 AM from Castle Geekhaven
Copyright, I'm okay with. It's the shady as shit business practices that get me. Like the whole "You're not actually buying this song. You're buying a license to play this song on a specific platform." sort of shit.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 7 Native Jovian, Wed, 11th May '11 8:47:58 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
MHO, Copyright laws (as in, the individual instances of it) most likely need to be rewritten from scratch.
How do you figure? What, exactly, is fundamentally wrong with the implementation of copyright protections?
Nobody cares in the same sense as speeding, or littering. Do it when the lawman is watching, and expect to pay a price.

 
Nihilist Hippie
"Do it when the lawman is watching, and expect to pay a price"

I've seen statistics on the younger generations perceptions on piracy that suggest otherwise. I forget though exactly so can anyone provide an appropriate link?

edited 11th May '11 9:27:12 AM by LoveHappiness

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
 10 Silent Reverence, Wed, 11th May '11 9:28:18 AM from 3 tiles right 1 tile up
adopting kitteh
blueharp: That doesn't work when Everything Is Online.
See ALL the stars!
@Jovian, people "selling" you what's ostensibly a good, except with legal loopholes that let them take it away whenever they want. Also, as an extension of that, I'm being forced to buy software and hardware that does not act in my interest, e.g. HDCP.

edited 11th May '11 9:38:17 AM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.
[up][up]Yeah, as if they have a continuous ability to monitor everything. Ok, so they WOULD like that, but they don't have it.

Manage to attract somebody's notice, though, and well, self-righteous indignation about how things deserve to be free won't get you far.

edited 11th May '11 9:38:59 AM by blueharp

 
Nihilist Hippie
Actually the cultural norms are relatively weak when it come to piracy.

edited 11th May '11 9:48:46 AM by LoveHappiness

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
PARTY HARD!!!!
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Nihilist Hippie
OK, I'm getting off the internet now in order to play an illegal copy of Pokemon Black and White. [lol]
"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
See ALL the stars!
@blueharp, for an arbitrarily large value of Crazy-Prepared, you can't be tracked down. PGP is your friend.

edited 11th May '11 9:58:22 AM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.
Moar and Moar and Moar
^^Extremely weak when it comes to piracy.

To the point that our culture has an ingrown huge entitlement towards cultural goods. We want to be able to share cultural experiences with those around us.

I guess entitlement is a bit of a loaded term. It's more like there's a bit cultural blob out there and generally we want to be a part of it. And we do whatever we need to do to be part of it. The thing is, that without the "blob" instinct, cultural works lose much, maybe even all of their inherent value.

FWIW the only reason why copyright survives in its current (and evolving into ever more restrictive) forms is because of another cultural pressure that seeks to deny to others because there's an impression that exclusivity increases personal value.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
[up]x5

Culture is one thing, the law is another.

Plenty of people will sympathize with you complaining about a speeding ticket for going five miles over the speed limit and getting dinged by a camera van.

Of course, if you do it to excess, well...that's another story. You tend to lose sympathy there.

[up]x 2

Mmkay? I'm not sure why you're telling this to me, I'm more of the point that nobody is going to even bother looking, and so you're not likely to even need to bother encrypting. Is there an XKCD about a person writing their diary in code, but nobody giving a flip about it?

Oh wait, it's in the alt text

edited 11th May '11 10:09:39 AM by blueharp

 
 19 Native Jovian, Wed, 11th May '11 10:49:43 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
@Jovian, people "selling" you what's ostensibly a good, except with legal loopholes that let them take it away whenever they want.
What the hell are you talking about? If you buy a book, then they're not allowed to come take the book away from you later. The only thing I can think of that's even remotely similar to what you're describing here is the PS3 Other OS fiasco, and you'll recall that there was a rather high-profile lawsuit over that issue.

Also, as an extension of that, I'm being forced to buy software and hardware that does not act in my interest, e.g. HDCP.
Forced nothing. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. You're not entitled to have the exact sort of DRM-free products you want provided for you.
I view copyright laws the same way I view laws in general: it's probably better for them to exist than not exist, but it's not important for everyone to obey them all the time.
 
 21 shimaspawn, Wed, 11th May '11 11:06:09 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up][up] No, but if you buy an e-book for your Kindle they can take it away from you later and they have. That sort of dickery is the reason that a lot of people are fed up with copyright laws.

edited 11th May '11 11:06:25 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 22 Native Jovian, Wed, 11th May '11 11:07:34 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
[up]Didn't that cause a giant shitstorm too?

Anyway, those sorts of things can be remedied pretty easily by amending or adding to current laws. Copyright law doesn't need to completely rewritten from scratch to accommodate them.

edited 11th May '11 11:09:12 AM by NativeJovian

 23 Karkadinn, Wed, 11th May '11 11:10:53 AM from New Orleans, Louisiana
Karkadinn
Karmakin summed it up wonderfully well, imho. "Nobody pays for content/culture. We pay for the package that the content comes in...."

If you insist on selling your content in a product that is overly constraining, then people will naturally find ways to access the content in a different package. Packages are justified by their convenience. If your package is inconvenient, the answer is not to smack down everyone who wants your content in a convenient vehicle, but to find a way to repackage your content. I've spent more money on Steam games this year than I've spent on actual CD-ROM/DVD games in half a decade. In fact, the only time I've refrained from purchasing a game on Steam that I wanted was in the case of Bioshock 2, where there was excessive DRM that I didn't want on my computer.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
 24 shimaspawn, Wed, 11th May '11 11:34:09 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Steam is wonderful. And it gets around the fact that a lot of times it can be hard to track down physical copies of the PC games I want to play. Especially since I tend to be behind in trends because, well, I like to beat the games I have before buying new ones. Also, it means that I don't have to use the CD drive on my laptop which keeps it cooler.

edited 11th May '11 11:35:06 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
Well, eventually the older generation will die off, and the younger generation is extremely pro-piracy. Copyright is on it's last legs.

Not to mention, when bandwith allows and there's sufficient persecution of piracy that people actually bother to use darknets/encrypted communications, it will become IMPOSSIBLE to track.

At any rate, piracy will win. We'll win. wink

I favor all-out abolitionism, but unauthorized commercial redistribution of copyrighted content may be legitimately banned. Noncommercial redistribution is, essentially, private communications (online communications should be considered private and not monitored). Therefore, it should be left alone.

If people are going to be fined for piracy, the fine should not, under any circumstance, exceed twice the value of the product that's been downloaded without permission.

edited 11th May '11 11:43:35 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
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